ChatterBank8 mins ago
Local news, School expulsions...
On the local radio news this morining they reported that the local School that I actually went to had reduced it's number of exclusions from 180+ to 140+, pats on the back all round, When I went there from 73 to 79 I heard of only one exculsion in that whole time. It seems now that 140 a year is considered some sort of result. By removing any effective instrument of control from school staff have the authorities left them no choice but to use more often what is effectively the "Nuclear" option? Comments and ideas all welcome.
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Or if they went to school at all.
A few days ago one of AB�s regular contributors (I cannot remember who) suggested that radical measures are needed in schools and suggested an idea that I had been considering for some time.
In schools there are three types of pupil: 1 - those who want to learn (and whose parents encourage and support them to do so); 2 - those who tolerate school and generally behave themselves, but who could be led astray quite easily by the final group; 3 - those who do not want to be in school, have no intention of learning, skip school at each and every opportunity and generally cause mayhem for the other two groups (and whose parents encourage and support them to do so).
Schools now have lost control of large numbers of their pupils, largely due to government policies. The pupils in groups one and two are being badly let down by the state education system and the taxpayer is being fleeced to an alarming degree (cost this year �82bn, 13% of public spending) to fund education for those who simply will not respond to it. The time has clearly come for those in the last group to be permanently excluded from mainstream school. Special centres should be set up where they must attend during school hours (them being taken there by force if necessary). There they will simply be contained for the day with no attempts being made to educate them. When they reach an age where they realise they may have needed to learn to read and write, the cost of any �adult learning� they require will be met by them in full.
It will cost a bit to implement this, but the quality of state education (which is at present generally abysmal) will improve enormously. Until it is introduced, half-hearted measures such as temporary exclusions (which mean those involved can simply roam round the shops for a few more days) will continue to be scoffed at.
A few days ago one of AB�s regular contributors (I cannot remember who) suggested that radical measures are needed in schools and suggested an idea that I had been considering for some time.
In schools there are three types of pupil: 1 - those who want to learn (and whose parents encourage and support them to do so); 2 - those who tolerate school and generally behave themselves, but who could be led astray quite easily by the final group; 3 - those who do not want to be in school, have no intention of learning, skip school at each and every opportunity and generally cause mayhem for the other two groups (and whose parents encourage and support them to do so).
Schools now have lost control of large numbers of their pupils, largely due to government policies. The pupils in groups one and two are being badly let down by the state education system and the taxpayer is being fleeced to an alarming degree (cost this year �82bn, 13% of public spending) to fund education for those who simply will not respond to it. The time has clearly come for those in the last group to be permanently excluded from mainstream school. Special centres should be set up where they must attend during school hours (them being taken there by force if necessary). There they will simply be contained for the day with no attempts being made to educate them. When they reach an age where they realise they may have needed to learn to read and write, the cost of any �adult learning� they require will be met by them in full.
It will cost a bit to implement this, but the quality of state education (which is at present generally abysmal) will improve enormously. Until it is introduced, half-hearted measures such as temporary exclusions (which mean those involved can simply roam round the shops for a few more days) will continue to be scoffed at.
Indeed it did, sqad. But it doesn't now.
�Even� the comprehensive schools managed to turn out well disciplined, literate and well educated youngsters by age 15 (not 16, 18 or 21 as now). They did not all go on to become brain surgeons, but they went on to make their way in the world with the benefit of a good basic education.
The abolition (or near castration) of the grammar school system was the single most damaging part of government education policy in recent times. Based on the philosophy that �not everybody can have it, so nobody can�, the lack of grammar school education means that many in my groups one and two are denied a decent education by those in group three (who would never have made it to grammar school).
But the problem posed by this question goes deeper than that. In the days when teachers had control over their pupils, those studying at any school, whatever its status, could expect to be brought into line if they attempted to cause chaos. Today they are not. Parents of these little darlings must take the lion�s share of the blame for raising their children in the belief that it is acceptable to disrupt other children�s lives. But the government needs to get to grips with this problem or it will only worsen.
�Even� the comprehensive schools managed to turn out well disciplined, literate and well educated youngsters by age 15 (not 16, 18 or 21 as now). They did not all go on to become brain surgeons, but they went on to make their way in the world with the benefit of a good basic education.
The abolition (or near castration) of the grammar school system was the single most damaging part of government education policy in recent times. Based on the philosophy that �not everybody can have it, so nobody can�, the lack of grammar school education means that many in my groups one and two are denied a decent education by those in group three (who would never have made it to grammar school).
But the problem posed by this question goes deeper than that. In the days when teachers had control over their pupils, those studying at any school, whatever its status, could expect to be brought into line if they attempted to cause chaos. Today they are not. Parents of these little darlings must take the lion�s share of the blame for raising their children in the belief that it is acceptable to disrupt other children�s lives. But the government needs to get to grips with this problem or it will only worsen.
At mrwarpigs school (teacher not pupil!) the bad kids including those who had been excluded were taken horse riding to 'encourage/promote their positive self image' while the good kids were left behind doing lessons!!!!!!!!
The only positive thing I can possibly see in this is at least it gave the good kids an opportunity to sit and learn without the others disrupting the class, although I doubt they felt much like learning.
The only positive thing I can possibly see in this is at least it gave the good kids an opportunity to sit and learn without the others disrupting the class, although I doubt they felt much like learning.
The swollen numbers of excluded pupils are a sign of total meltdown of discipline in schools.
The eradication of discipline has stripped teachers of any form of respect that they had and instead it's the tail wagging the dog where disruptive, disrespectful and sullen youngsters rule the roost.
When I went to school teachers controlled us by means of corporal punishment, but only if we stepped out of line. My school for example used a leather strap for this purpose. I had it a few times and it has not turned me into some kind of insecure, bullying psycopath as the wishy washy liberals would have you believe it would.
I also cannot recall expulsions, which most probably happened in very extreme cases, but which were exceptionally rare. It actually used to be seen as shame and embarrassment to parents if they had to go to school because their little darling(s) had been naughty. Nowadays it appears to be the norm. I wonder why?
I went on to hold down two very important jobs for over 30 years, have never been in trouble, give respect where it's due, and have been married for 30 odd years. Gosh, didn't that corporal punishment turn me into a right thug!!!!!!!!
The eradication of discipline has stripped teachers of any form of respect that they had and instead it's the tail wagging the dog where disruptive, disrespectful and sullen youngsters rule the roost.
When I went to school teachers controlled us by means of corporal punishment, but only if we stepped out of line. My school for example used a leather strap for this purpose. I had it a few times and it has not turned me into some kind of insecure, bullying psycopath as the wishy washy liberals would have you believe it would.
I also cannot recall expulsions, which most probably happened in very extreme cases, but which were exceptionally rare. It actually used to be seen as shame and embarrassment to parents if they had to go to school because their little darling(s) had been naughty. Nowadays it appears to be the norm. I wonder why?
I went on to hold down two very important jobs for over 30 years, have never been in trouble, give respect where it's due, and have been married for 30 odd years. Gosh, didn't that corporal punishment turn me into a right thug!!!!!!!!
Actually although most on this site will be surprised I am not in favour of just dumping those who buck the trend.
I was expelled, from a private school, so you can see my background rov if you want to categorize, but since then I have been what I consider successful. I work in the City, for a financial institution and yes, I am well within the top 10% of incomes int the UK (and correspondingly fund Brown to a huge degree- approx �`1500 a week). So should I have been chucked aside ?
One thing that I have never understood, labours obsession with dumping grammar schools. These schools give the working class an opportunity to get on. OK some middle class manipulate the system but by and large it is still an opportunity. These selective schools should be reinstated immediately.
The problem with your lefty do-gooder (note the distinction from a true labour voter that generally wants their kids to do well) is that we are not all equal. That is not bad, each has a station in life and that is the way it is, we cant all have a degree.
Teachers, the police and parents need to get back their authority over kids that has been eroded over the time Noo labour have been in power. Every kid knows his 'ooman rights' what bolloks, a right to life and a right to be treated as a human ok but this does not mean no discipline.
Hey vote labour.
I was expelled, from a private school, so you can see my background rov if you want to categorize, but since then I have been what I consider successful. I work in the City, for a financial institution and yes, I am well within the top 10% of incomes int the UK (and correspondingly fund Brown to a huge degree- approx �`1500 a week). So should I have been chucked aside ?
One thing that I have never understood, labours obsession with dumping grammar schools. These schools give the working class an opportunity to get on. OK some middle class manipulate the system but by and large it is still an opportunity. These selective schools should be reinstated immediately.
The problem with your lefty do-gooder (note the distinction from a true labour voter that generally wants their kids to do well) is that we are not all equal. That is not bad, each has a station in life and that is the way it is, we cant all have a degree.
Teachers, the police and parents need to get back their authority over kids that has been eroded over the time Noo labour have been in power. Every kid knows his 'ooman rights' what bolloks, a right to life and a right to be treated as a human ok but this does not mean no discipline.
Hey vote labour.
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i'm 15 in the first year of my gcse's.
i'm in the top set for all my subjects that have sets. and i find it difficult to learn.
plus i'm a month away form my bilogy exam and we've only done 2/3 of the work that we need to do to know how to pass the exam. (but my biology teacher did teach us a unit of chemistry) (my other core science teacher mainly does physcis and the rest of the chemistry and said we can revise the other biology units as we'll b cutting it fine as a unit takes about a month)
i'm in the top set for all my subjects that have sets. and i find it difficult to learn.
plus i'm a month away form my bilogy exam and we've only done 2/3 of the work that we need to do to know how to pass the exam. (but my biology teacher did teach us a unit of chemistry) (my other core science teacher mainly does physcis and the rest of the chemistry and said we can revise the other biology units as we'll b cutting it fine as a unit takes about a month)
-- answer removed --
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