Our youngsters

[maurizio]

Violence is up again on the London streets. A gay man was brutally murdered last week-end for no apparent reasons. Few weeks ago a man was murdered in his own house following a burglary. On both occasions the killers were young people, some were teenagers. I am  at loss at the thought that those people will one day will be part of the movers and shakers of Britain. And I am  not going even to discuss the yobs culture and the high rate of teenager's pregnancies. Shouldn't schools/parents/government do something about it?  

[georgit79]

I am with you that something should be done, but what? The people that do this kind of thing have no morals or respect for other human life at all- how are we supposed to get through to them?

[andy hughes]

The root of the problem lies with parenting, or more accurately, parenting skills. Previous generations enjoyed extended familes - parents and grandparents living within easy distance, or even under the same roof, meant that new parents could learn by example, and receive on-the-spot advice and guidance. today's fragmented society means that people have children with absolutely no ideas of the basics of teaching them maners, respect, interaction with others, and the basic ground rules that make a civilised society work. Until the emphasis is placed back on ensuring that people have sufficient skills to raise their children properly, this problem will only escalate. the government fannies about moaning about 'family values' and continues the dismantling of the education system begun by the Tories. the fabric of society needs to be strenghtened, and this begins in the home with rather less emphasis on 'rights' and a lot more on responsibility. That's the answer - how you get people to put it into action is anyone's guess!

[bobbobley]

Age has nothing to do with it, a criminal will be a criminal, FACT. Older criminals are just unruly youths who waited/ were lucky enough not to get caught when they were younger.<P>the gay man was murdered and robbed as part of a spree; his sexuality doesn't matter - why do people keep referring to it? the man was murdered in his house as he disturbed the burglars - they panicked, as you probably would. (he was straight btw).

[Ouisch]

I agree that parenting has changed over the last 20 years or so, and that that has had an impact on the attitude and behavior of youngsters today.  For those of us in our late 30s and beyond, most of us came from two-parent families, where Dad worked, and Mom kept house, and was home we when got home from school.  She made sure we *did* come home from school (weren't hanging out somewhere), and had us buckle down and do homework and household chores.  Dad was there to supply the discipline when we got out of line.  Entire neighborhoods acted as watchdogs - if we were misbehaving somewhere down the street, nosy Mrs. Smith would stick her head out the door and threaten to tell your parents.

 

Fast forward to the late 1970s/early 190s and beyond...suddenly punishing children is frowned upon.  Inflation means that usually both parents have to work outside of the home, and a generation of "latchkey" children emerged.  Touchy-feely "experts" warned us that it crushed the child's self-esteem to ever criticize them, so suddenly *everyone* won a medal in the contest, so no one felt left out.  Kids were praised no matter what, to always bolster their feelings.  This spawned a generation of kids with a sense of entitlement, who couldn't understand why they couldn't have everything they wanted, and thought everything they did was OK.  The line between right and wrong was forever blurred.

 

Just my two cents, of course.

[OBonio]

The government ARE trying to do something about it by taking away parent's/teacher's/copper's right to discipline children.  Children have nothing to fear nowadays apart from a stern word should they choose the dark side.  Liberal do-gooders will surely go to hell for this.

[newtron]

The same types of things are happening in America.  I believe that education is the key to solving almost any problem.  In the US, education reform is talked about a lot, but generally, all they do is blame the teachers and school systems and try to find ways to make them accountable, rather than actually get to the root of the problem, which is directly related to the things metioned in the above answers. 

[liljoolz]

i'm a 21 year old girl and with out the strict discipline i recieved from my mother and grandmother i would have been one of these yobs. i am now a well adjusted young adult who is trying to find a respectable job. i agree, kids today have no respect. if they had the same kind of parenting as i did, maybe they would have some. i'm not afraid to say it, i was smacked as a kid and if it helps when i have kids, regardless of the law i will smack them. i hate it when i hear people my age not being polite to their elders, i give up my seat on the bus, i open doors!! i reckon i'm part of the minority. please dont tar us all with the same brush.

[mike1222]

A few things contribute to the state of this present younger generation, but the main thing is the breakdown of the basic social unit, the family. Andy and Ouisch exactly mirrors my views in their answers.

The lack of any sort of discipline is beginning to manifest itself with the gradual breakdown of law and order.  No (or very little) deterrents also contributes to this and the yoghurt knitters and tree huggers can't see this and espouse greater liberalism and and even less discipline for our youngsters.  This, coupled with the PC brigade putting their oar in, means that ordinary decent people can't even express their truly held opinions and views for fear of offending homosexuals, coloured people, ethnic minorities, illegal immigrants, single mothers, criminals, people with curly hair, smokers, drinkers, left handers, Scousers  etc etc ad nauseum.

I'd better shut up now before I start on the state of education standards in this country.  

[mike1222]

Oh, forgot to mention Lady Golfers in my answer!!

[Greedyfly]

Violence up again - it is always up but you tend to hear less about it because it is as shocking these days.   Unfortunatly the world is that way and increasingly getting worse.  Someone should do something about it but who and what?

[Greedyfly]

I didnt have a strict upbringing or influenced to believe in anything but what is right and wrong and I wouldnt dream of anything like this.  But I do believe that some people, no matter how much guidence they have, just dont have morales.

[LeedsRhinos]

My Wife & I left the UK early this year for the very reasons cited in this post. We didn't want our (then) 5 year old daughter growing up there anymore. I am very proud to be English but I just don't think it is the same country as it was 10-15 years ago.

[FP]

Chrisd, I would be very interested to know where you are living now.

 

Fortunately where I live in England the yob culture has not yet proved a great problem, but it's very rural here.  I certainly would not have wanted to bring my child up in an urban area of the UK.  (I originate from London)

 

I don't mean to offend anybody because I am not saying that all youngsters in urban areas are part of the yob culture.  Far from it; I think the majority of our young people are great, but unfortunately, as always, the minority are the ones that get noticed.

[robbieh]

On both occasions the killers were young people, some were teenagers. I am  at loss at the thought that those people will one day will be part of the movers and shakers of Britain.

To be honest, I doubt that the killers will be movers and shakers of the future. I think the movers and shakers will be from the MAJORITY of young people who aren't "yobs". I don't think the fault or the providor of the solution should come solely from government. If it did, then the same people that constantly fill the daily mail with stories of "bad youth" will then only go on to complain about the "nanny state" yet again. The schools have enough on their plates I would think tryoing to bring in new educational styles to combat complaints of easier exams. I think therefore the blame should lay with the parents.

And ChrisD, where exactly did you move to? Or was the statement that you moved because of the youth, just a bold comment made to add fuel to the discussion? I find it hard to believe that you couldn't find somewhere "nice" to bring a child up in the UK!?! If that was realy the reason you left the UK then thats more a reflection perhaps of the media in which you have chosen to believe. For example if you read the daily mail then i could imagine people running scared from this country scared for their lives due to the threat from youngsters, the internet, immigrants, modern life, not drinking enough wine, drinking too much wine, getting addicted to heroine after one puff of a spliff, europe, gambling etc etc

I'm sure that many crimes are made by non-youngsters. So should i therefore be frowning upon and running scared of ALL people beyond teenage years just because of the minority??

 

[maurizio]

What a debate. Thanks to all the replies.  I personally think its due to education, discrupted family life, uneducated parent/s and so on. Liljooz I agree with you and I was not blaming all teenagers. Thank god there are wonderful people like you out there, we just hope you are not in the minority. Anyway I remember when I was a kid in the 70s it was the same, older people judging and blaming us (kids) for most things; we were all drug users, thieves etc.  

 

 

[Bangkok]

Arrggh, I wrote a thesis and it was lost.  Perhaps for the best.  In summary, Thatcher said there was no society, people believed greed was good (terminally dull conversations about house prices, Harry Enfield becomes a household name).  Liberals and Tories (Mike 1222, please note) don't deal with the breakdown of morality, ho hum, we are where we are.

It's never too late to change things, it merely becomes harder and more necessary

 

[mike1222]

Bangkok, you misjudge me - I am neither Liberal nor Tory - I'm just a good old fashioned apolitical cynic!!

[Hgrove]

Maurizio, I cannot contribute to the discussion as the standard has been so high but can I please ask you:- I used to work with someone from Udine called Michele who knew someone called Maurizio.  It wouldn't be you by any chance?  I have been curious since I have noticed your name.  By the way I am no longer in touch with Michele so there would be no problem with your anonimity.