Should the burka now be banned?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-120900 6/Jewellers-robbery-Oxfordshire-burka-clad-man --150-000-designer-watches-stolen.html

Yet another crime committed under the disguise of the burka.

How long must we wait before they either ban the wearing of burkas, or at least demand that they show their faces before entering certain establishments?

[gina32]

another view, i totally agree, we have to take shoes off, cover up and so on when in rome!

[naomi24]

Maybe identity cards it would help.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/photos/2009/08/21/2 662450.htm

Yes, they should be banned. If, as SP says, banning the burka means bigots will have a field day, then so be it. That is not a valid reason for allowing one section of the community exemption from rules or conditions that apply to the rest of us.

SP asks how it could be enforced. I would imagine it could be very easily enforced. These ladies aren�t exactly difficult to spot.

[I.Don No]

I have read the answers to this legitimate question and am at a complete loss to understand why some answers have trivialised this subject.

IMHO when in Rome do as the Romans do.

This is the UK. It is not a 'muslim' country. If I visited a 'muslim' country I would expect to have to dress as the locals do....anything less would be disrespectful to my hosts.

It is not racist to ensure that people who live here, and those who visit, should be dressed according to the customs of this country.

I wonder how far down the street I could walk in a 'muslim' country if I were dressed in hot pants and a halter top.

[Gnawer]

I wonder how far down the street I could walk in a 'muslim' country if I were dressed in hot pants and a halter top.

Not far at all especially if your a man...

[Oneeyedvic]

IMHO when in Rome do as the Romans do.

This is the UK. It is not a 'muslim' country. If I visited a 'muslim' country I would expect to have to dress as the locals do....anything less would be disrespectful to my hosts.

It is not racist to ensure that people who live here, and those who visit, should be dressed according to the customs of this country.

Erm, exactly.

Point is that this is a secular country and there is no law against wearing a Burkha in this country.

Would you like to tell me what the national dress of this country is? Funnily enough you will find that it has changed over the decades and centuries.

I agree that shopkeepers can / should display signage telling people that their face must be on full display - ie no burkas, facemasks, motorcycle helmets etc

As previously mentioned, you don't ban an item of clothing because some people use it to commit violence - motorcycle helmets being a perfect example.

[sp1814]

naomi24

There is absolutely no law which dictates that people cannot walk around with their faces shrouded if they should wish.

The rules you refer to are rules laid down by certain establishments with regards to their security policies. I wholly understand why a bank may want to implement a policy whereby anyone covering their faces cannot be served.

However, to extrapolate that to say that the burkha should be banned altogether is a step in the wrong direction.

What benefit would it be to you personally? Or me? Or anyone who isn't a strict Muslim?

It seems dodgy. Dunno why...it just does.

[sp1814]

...furthermore, if a law were passed which forbade the wearing or burkhas in public, would you really support a police force running around arresting Muslim women, rather than catching real criminals???

Seriously...?

[sp1814]

I.Don No

Please specify exactly what you mean when you say, "dress like the locals".

Are you talking about a bowler hat and a pin-striped suit?

Or perhaps a shell suit and trainers?

Or a kilt and tam o'shanter?

Or a simple Karen Millen two piece business suit?

Or a leather mini skirt, high heels and crop top?

Or perhaps they should dress like emos, or new romantics, or metalheads, or new popsters...or...or...

You see what I'm driving at? Everyone seems to be telling Muslims to conform, but none of the rest of us do!

[naomi24]

SP, There is absolutely no law which dictates that people cannot walk around with their faces shrouded if they should wish.

No, there is no law preventing people walking around with their faces covered, but there should be. How is it that burka clad women (or men in some instances) can walk into a British airport with no questions asked? You can bet your boots if I walked in with a mask covering my face I would be stopped immediately and asked to remove it. The rules should apply to all - with no exceptions. Anything else is blatant discrimination.

[Gromit]

Merseyside Police is appealing for information following an armed robbery at a store on the retail park last Thursday evening (21st December).

At around 8.30pm, the mobile phone store was closing up and, as staff were letting one of the remaining customers out of the shop, three men dressed in Santa suits forced their way in.

http://www.merseyside.police.uk/html/news/crim estoppers/appeals/december/mc27-12c-linkway.ht m

Hey, let's ban Santa outfits!

[Gromit]

More robbing Santas.

TWO men dressed as Santa Claus have been robbing people of their Christmas cash, police revealed today.

The pair pounced as their victims withdrew money from hole-in-the-wall machines at night in Weymouth town centre.

http://www.thisisdorset.net/news/1920921.robbe d_by_santa/

Ban Santa now!

[Gromit]

Santa Claus has nothing to do with religion, it is just a tradition imported from Germany.

Wearing Santa costume should be banned immediately now that criminals have taken to dressing as Santa to commit their crimes.

[B00]

I also understood that the burka had nothing to do with religion either, it was more a traditional custom?

[BertiWooster]

naomi24

How would identity cards solve the problem
Who says that the persons behind the burkas are women , or indeed the same person in the picture on the cards they are displaying ?

Actually , aren't the pictures on the identity cards they are holding , displaying faces ?
Does that mean that you can display a picture of yourself showing your face - but you cant show your face in the flesh ?

[naomi24]

Berti - It was a joke - but that was exactly the point I was making. :o)

Gromit, No, let's not ban Santa outfits - well not unless he takes to covering his whole head so even his eyes aren't visible.

I find it incredible that people defend Muslim women who cover themselves from head to toe, when much of the time they do it because their menfolk demand it. So much for championing women's rights. Bit of a contradiction going on somewhere.

[Gromit]

naomi24

But criminals are using Santa outfits to hide their identity. It must hide enough of their face to work or they wouldn't do it.

If Santa outfits and Burkhas are being used for the same purpose by criminals, how can you support one being banned and not the other?

Would you care to elaborate on your statement:
"That is not a valid reason for allowing one section of the community exemption from rules or conditions that apply to the rest of us. "

Which laws are they breaking (or exempt from by wearing a burkha?

[TCL-MUMPING]

"Yet another crime committed under the disguise of the burka."

You make it sound as if it's happening on regular basis so perhaps you could furnish the facts and figures.

[TCL-MUMPING]

As prams and pushchairs have been used to hide shoplifted goods, how long before they are banned from being brought into shops and stores? What if they were allowed to enter but were searched on the way out, would that be okay?

[naomi24]

Gromit, Why do you want me to elaborate on my statement? I made it perfectly clear that I was referring to SP's concerns that bigots might have a field day if the burka was banned. Nevertheless, I'll repeat it. That is not a valid reason to exempt one section of society from the rules and conditions that apply to the rest of us.

It seems you didn't read my subsequent post properly either. Tell me why, if I entered an airport in a mask, I would be required to remove it, when people completely covered from head to foot are free to wander where they will?

Additionally, can you address my concerns that those here who support the dubious rights of women to wear burkas are, in fact, displaying appallingly misguided double standards. You would be among the first to call for fair play in every other area of life, and yet you openly support an antiquated system that obliges women to dress in a way deemed fit for them by men.