If I had employed someone

[dothawkes31]

and not passed their ID and proof of right to work onto my HR department, i would have been disciplined, but I would never have done that, I am not that thick. If my HR department had accepted the application form from my department for the new member of staff, and the proof of ID and right to work documents had not been included, they would have chased me for them and I would have been disciplined for taking someone on without obraining them, and so Baroness Scotland was rightly fined. But if she interviewed the applicant and took her on, how did she not know the woman's visa had expired? The right to work in the UK proof is essential for NI and Tax purposes, how has Tax and insurance been deducted and where has it been paid to? Or is this how the 'error' was discovered?

[albaqwerty]

I have no proof she didnt, but if I was fortunate enough to employ a housekeeper, then I would interview the applicant personally. A £5k fine seems less than a slap on the wrist

[anotheoldgit]

The whole pathetic story is here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1215198/Baroness-Scotland-facing-10-000-unknowingly-employing-illegal-immigrant-housekeeper.html

Why won't Brown sack her I hear many say.

Well could it be it is because of her skin colour? surely if she were to go it would upset Labour's ethnic mix, along with her status "Caribbean-born Lady Scotland and the first ever female Attorney General" to boot.

[jno]

looks like a technical breach to me - she wasn't exploiting the woman, she paid tax and NI, but she didn't keep photocopies. American cabinet ministers occasionally get sacked for dodgy dealings with staff, but that usually turns out to be not paying their taxes, which is a serious matter. I'm unbothered by this - but I do wonder how Dot would have been treated in the same sort of case.

Ah, glad you spotted her skin colour, oldgit, I felt sure that was vital information you wouldn't miss.

[BertiWooster]

Given the merits of the case , I think that a fine is about right here , irrespective as to whether or not we are talking about a cabinet minister or Joe public .

I cant see that there has been any attempt to deceive or deliberately break the law
There are far more relevant matters , for which we should be calling for the heads of politicians .

Lets focus on matters that are of real detriment to society and this sphere we inhabit

[vulcan]

"I'm sorry Mr Brown, I didn't know i was breaking the law"
"That's OK,Baroness,no harm done.Mind you, an ordinary person couldn't use ignorance of the law as an excuse !"

[Sqad]

Not so young jasonbourne........from the House of Lords, she "banged" on and on for months to get the Bill passed with all it's recommendations and conditions and low and behold, she broke the law that she implemented.

Her position, in my opinion is untenable.

[chelle7272]

That's rather judgmental post im-jasonbourne.
How could you have any idea whether Ab-ers work and / or employ people?

And further, why would answerbank be the wrong place to ask any question you wish? That is the purpose of the site (wiythin the rules of course!).

[tonyav]

She needs to get the boot.

[BertiWooster]

vulcan42

''.....an ordinary person couldn't use ignorance of the law as an excuse !"

If as you say she was ignorant of the law , then she should be punished according to the law .

That is what has been applied here , under the law .

[rov1200]

Its another case of this inept government and the way it treats illegal immigration. How can the border agency now act tough on employers who use immigrants?

[dothawkes31]

In the both job i was made redundant from in August and in the job i will be starting shortly, i interviewded and recruited dozens of staff and processed their applications following the legal requiremenst of English employment law. This included obtaining proof of an applicants identityand their right to work in England. I must therefore be one of the rare people on AB with that experience I suppose if jasonbourne is indeed accurate in his assumption. I asked the question because I wanted to, I shall run future questions by jason in future if he feels the need.

[Gromit]

From AOG link

"If the employer is found to have employing an illegal unknowingly, they can be fined up to £10,000. If they have done so knowingly, they can be jailed for two years and given an unlimited fine."

It is clear from the fine that it is accepted she unknowingly broke the law. If she did not know she was breaking the law then a fine seems reasonable. If she knowingly broke the law, then imprisonment and losing her job would be the correct.

[vulcan]

Berti
As you say she has been punished according to the law.However this is the person that implemented that law in the first place. A fine is hardly adequate recompense under these circumstances.

[Sqad]

jason....c'mon it is unlike you to go over the top.

Of course she is a special person and of course she should be treated as a special person because she is the Attorney General....the person who implemented the law.....you don't get much higher than that.

P.S But if the maximum fine was £10,000, why was her fine £5,000?

[ABerrant]

"Implement" does not go far enough in describing the role of Baroness Scotland of Asthal. As the Home Office Minister of State during the reading of the UK Borders Bill in the House of Lords she was primary proponent of the future Act and debated all aspects of the legislation including civil punishments for employing illegals. She cannot plead ignorance of the law.

Genuine mistake or not it is her current role as Attorney General that becomes untenable. How can the primary legal advisor to the Government, responsible for the CPS, Serious Fraud Office, Revenue and Customs Prosecution Office etc. be held by a person who has broken the law while in that very Office?

[dothawkes31]

If I had employed someone who later turned out to have used a false passport, or false visa papers, then that would have been shicking, but as a retail manager highly an unlikely scenario, however, if i had been in a senior role in the Government, and therefore a possible target for espionage, terrorists or other dodgy types, i would have made absolutely sure that i was not putting m,yself or my country at risk. she is lucky this was just an illegal immigrant, it could have been a whole plot to undermine our government. Think on,

[dothawkes31]

and if I have to undergo a basic CRB check to work in a shop, surely the hosekeeper for the attorney general has to have the same checks!!!!! or would this not cover the last 5 years residential and employment proof the way mine has had to?