Why is burglary treated as a minor crime?

[R1Geezer]

I consider it a very serious invasion of personal space/property, a virtual rape. Some of the victims are traumatised permanently, often having to move. Yet our courts treat it like shop lifting. To get jailed a criminal has to have dozens under the belt. So why as a society can we not lock this scum up for longer?

[Oneeyedvic]

actually ludwig, that is exactly what Geezer is suggesting - burglary is burglary. 10 years and that's it.

So the nicking gnomes and the case that Ummm mentions would be treated exactly the same.

ummm is still alive and whilst it is terrible, she can overcome this with help and counselling.

You can't overcome death.

btw rape would normally get a lower sentence than 10 years. Do you think that the person who broke into Ummms house should get a longer sentence than a rapist?

[naomi24]

Quinlad, Nonsense like that doesn't warrant a considered response.

[Oneeyedvic]

///I have no sympathy whatsoever for anyone who deliberately commits a criminal act knowing full well that his actions are going to hurt other people. ////

Would you support mandatory jail sentences for anyone speeding. As has already been explained, if you hit a pedestrian at 40mph they only have a 10% chance of surviving the impact.

[naomi24]

Nicking gnomes from someone's driveway isn't burglary Vic.

[Quinlad]

Thjing is, we prosecute and convict people for what they do, rather than what they might do.

An aggressive inebriated man, if disturbed, might smash your head against a wall. But we charge him with what he's done (being drunk and disorderly), not what he might do (GBH) - however scary it might be to be around him.

By the same token, we have a range of offences with which a burglar can be charged - including aggravated burglary.

As I said, having someone trespass in your house and take your goods is a very unpleasant experience. But in of itself it's not going to leave you eating through a tube.

[Oneeyedvic]

You are right Naomi - I was responding to Ludwigs answer where he mentioned it :-)

[Quinlad]

Apologies, naomi. Perhaps I misunderstood? I thought you were saying it's improper to compare the severity of different crimes,

[naomi24]

Vic, unlike a burglar, a speeding motorist does not set out deliberately with the intention of hurting someone.

[Oneeyedvic]

So you are happy that they know that they are breaking the law and IF they hit someone then they should go to prison?

And burglars to not intend to 'hurt' someone. They intend to deprive someone of their valuables.

[naomi24]

Of course burglars know they're going to hurt people. Yes, they do steal possessions, but by intruding into a home they are violating the home owner personally. When I came home to find my bed rifled and my underwear and clothes thrown everywhere by his filthy hands, not to mention my furniture broken and tossed around the house, and all the treasured and irreplaceable things my mother had left me gone, I had been violated - personally. Rape has been mentioned - and that is precisely what crossed my mind at that time. I felt I had been raped, and for a long time afterwards I was afraid to leave my house, and even more afraid to stay in the house alone at night, and after 12 years I still think about it every time I go out, and every time I am alone at home, so don't give me sympathy for burglars because it just doesn't wash. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Oneeyedvic]

/// You don't know what you're talking about. ////

///Of course burglars know they're going to hurt people. Yes, they do steal possessions, but by intruding into a home they are violating the home owner personally///

Actually, I do know what I am talking about as I have visited prisons and talked to burglars. They often do not think of how the home owner feels - they are just looking at the end result.

I would ask you to read this article http://www.guardian.c...e.prisonsandprobation and maybe have a look at the Justice Research Consortium website, but I doubt you would be interested.

Sadly, you are not alone. This project will not go ahead despite promising results in the reduction of reoffending due to people like you and other posters on this site. The FACT of the matter is that people can change (as has been proved). It is much easier to deny that fact and lock them up for life though.

///after 12 years I still think about it every time I go out, and every time I am alone at home, so don't give me sympathy for burglars because it just doesn't wash.///

I think I will leave it there. You are (in my opinion) to emotional to debate this rationally and are putting your fears ahead of your (usual) excellent rational debating skills.

[Quinlad]

Burglary is to rape what vandalism is to GBH.

[Quinlad]

And of course, a peadophile is not dissimlar to someone who sneaks into a child's bedroom and steals their toys. Sorry, but the rape analogy is disgraceful. Please drop it.

[naomi24]

Believe it or not, in my professional life I've talked to burglars too, Vic - and yes I am emotional - a personal violation makes people emotional - even after all that time - but people like you who have every sympathy for the perpetrator make me angry. You say you've been burgled, but from the way you talk you can have no idea what it's like to be on the receiving end of something like that.

Quinlad, disgraceful? How would you know? You don't know what you're talking about either.

[Oneeyedvic]

I expected better of you that simple "You don't know what you're talking about " arguments.

Well my dad is bigger than your dad, so there.

[naomi24]

I haven't mentioned anyone's dad, but when you clearly don't know what you're talking about, there's nothing else I can say, Vic.

[Quinlad]

(As it's panto season)

Oh yes I do!

[R1Geezer]

Naomi's posts above illustrate perfectly why this is a 10 year crime. Vic you keep banging on about speeding and how losing your TV is a minor thing. Yes losing mundane chattells is minor. What is not is perfectly explained by naomi, if you are so hard you can get over it, well done. But to many this is akin to rape and should be treated as such.

[Oneeyedvic]

///But to many this is akin to rape and should be treated as such. ///
You are calling for harsher penalties than rape because that has a minimum of 4 years imprisonment compared to your 10 years

in my opinion it is only akin to rape if you haven't been raped.

A burglary is purely loss of goods. Some of those may have sentimental value, but the majority of it can be undone. Any psychological problems thereafter are generally down to a "what if" scenario - ie what if it happens again, what if I was there etc.

A rape is not a what if scenario. It is something that has happened that can never be undone.

I will reiterate that I am not saying that burglars should not be punished. I am saying that the current law (which allows for up to 14 years imprisonment) is fine with possibly some amendments (eg mandatory 6 months imprisonment) and that a judge can make a decision based on the facts of that specific case (and yes, take the victims into account).

You are calling for something which is akin to a zero tolerance policy. Would you be happy if all crimes (regardless of how severe they were) were treated identically.

eg assaulting someone in a pub fight is treated in exactly the same way as going out to someone's house with 5 of your mates and breaking every bone in his body?

Should all speeding be dealt with by 3 points? So there is no difference between doing 35 in a 30 zone and 60 in a 30 zone?

[R1Geezer]

well you didn't previously ask me about rape on your original list but under Geezer rules it's 20 years

In the case of Burglary .I'm saying it's at least ten years more for aggravated cases. I have only been talking about minimum sentences here.