Editor's Blog12 mins ago
Tories soft on Crime
Kenneth Clarke, the Government's new Justice Secretary plans to send less people to prison. I totally agree with this but I am a yoghurt knitting looney leftie Pinko.
It seems to have gone down less well with Conservative leaders and presumably with Tory voters.
// Senior Tories are privately furious about being seen as soft on crime. Backbencher Philip Davies said: "Lots of Conservative supporters will feel very disappointed. Lots feel it's wrong. Many voted Conservative on the basis we'd send more people to prison, not fewer." //
http://www.mirror.co....373811/#ixzz0sQbWlFab
Do ABers who voted Tory feel betrayed by this policy, or is it just common sense?
It seems to have gone down less well with Conservative leaders and presumably with Tory voters.
// Senior Tories are privately furious about being seen as soft on crime. Backbencher Philip Davies said: "Lots of Conservative supporters will feel very disappointed. Lots feel it's wrong. Many voted Conservative on the basis we'd send more people to prison, not fewer." //
http://www.mirror.co....373811/#ixzz0sQbWlFab
Do ABers who voted Tory feel betrayed by this policy, or is it just common sense?
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This is one of those areas that require paradoxical thinking. Lefties like Ken Clarke are incapable of that. Essentially to reduce the Jail population you must send more people to jail. The jails must be the kind oof places that no one wants to return to and eventaully hardly anyone is in jail and there is very little crime. However our main stream politicians have never been brave enough to tackle the issue. Hand the whole problem over to the Geezer and It'll be sorted.
Less police on the streets, less criminals behind bars.
One can only imagine the outrage that the Daily Mail would express on their front page if this was a Labour government. But it's the Tories and their chums in power, so the Mail hides the news away as minor stories somewhere inside.
What a miserable excuse for a newspaper that rag is.
(sorry for being slightly off topic)
One can only imagine the outrage that the Daily Mail would express on their front page if this was a Labour government. But it's the Tories and their chums in power, so the Mail hides the news away as minor stories somewhere inside.
What a miserable excuse for a newspaper that rag is.
(sorry for being slightly off topic)
Can't agree with Ken the pinko. Never liked the man he is pro euro too and I reckon they only keep him around to hunour the lefties.
As Geezer says make jails tougher. No playstations no votes no tv in the cell strict regime of work and reform classes. For lifers just forget the last one.
If Jail was somewhere extremely unpleasant then it would deter many,not all I admit, but that is what we would retain jails for. Do this and you will end up long term with less jail.
In addition ship out foreign prisoners, who cares about their human rights they cdid not care about their victims human rights so they should forgo theris.
Lifers and lon term prisoners should be contracted out to Thaland, Turkey or Arazona. They know how to run a Jail.
Just in case you didnt get it YES, I am furious.
Cutting Police numbers, where was that I must have missed it, I saw the budgets were cut and I saw red tape was cut so just assumed pen pushers were going. Anyone got a link to soe hard facts and figures ?
As Geezer says make jails tougher. No playstations no votes no tv in the cell strict regime of work and reform classes. For lifers just forget the last one.
If Jail was somewhere extremely unpleasant then it would deter many,not all I admit, but that is what we would retain jails for. Do this and you will end up long term with less jail.
In addition ship out foreign prisoners, who cares about their human rights they cdid not care about their victims human rights so they should forgo theris.
Lifers and lon term prisoners should be contracted out to Thaland, Turkey or Arazona. They know how to run a Jail.
Just in case you didnt get it YES, I am furious.
Cutting Police numbers, where was that I must have missed it, I saw the budgets were cut and I saw red tape was cut so just assumed pen pushers were going. Anyone got a link to soe hard facts and figures ?
It makes perfect sense to me. Stop sending people to prison for not paying their council tax or TV licence or putting the wrong kind of rubbish in their bin, or nicking a packet of fags, and put them to work doing something useful to pay off their debt.
This would free up more space so that the really nasty, violent criminals can be put away for longer, or even serve the sentence they're given without being released half way through it - that would be a start.
This would free up more space so that the really nasty, violent criminals can be put away for longer, or even serve the sentence they're given without being released half way through it - that would be a start.
I agree with ludwig, put the REAL long term, career criminals in prison for longer.
Regular offenders should get longer and longer sentences, whatever they have done.
There are certain people who just cant, or wont, behave as the rest of society does, so if they prove over and over again that the cant live an honest life keep them in prison.
At least they cant reoffend.
Regular offenders should get longer and longer sentences, whatever they have done.
There are certain people who just cant, or wont, behave as the rest of society does, so if they prove over and over again that the cant live an honest life keep them in prison.
At least they cant reoffend.
What does it matter who anyone voted for? Everyone was let down, not just Tory voters.
Anyway, it's not just a question of numbers in prisons, it's the severity of offences , or otherwise, that people are being imprisoned for which is the real dilemma. For example, is it really justifiable that council tax evaders have been jailed where sometimes murderers have not?
Society, and the Criminal Justice system, have to get into the 21st century, and I agree with Clarke's remarks yesterday that we are no longer living in Victorian Britain, and nowadays the punishments at times seem to be out of kilter with a modern Britain.
Why are we also still relying, at times, on medieval laws in order to deal with 21st century offences/offenders? Can't remember exactly what, but there was such an example only a few months or so ago. Ridiculous.
The whole system needs a radical overhaul. Just one example, with the austere future looming for the country, more use should be made of the community service programme which, I believe, would be a far better form of punishment for many petty criminals who find themselves leading a life of privilege and luxury behind bars at taxpayers' expense. Instead, get them out doing some unpaid work for the communities they've stolen and robbed from.
Anyway, it's not just a question of numbers in prisons, it's the severity of offences , or otherwise, that people are being imprisoned for which is the real dilemma. For example, is it really justifiable that council tax evaders have been jailed where sometimes murderers have not?
Society, and the Criminal Justice system, have to get into the 21st century, and I agree with Clarke's remarks yesterday that we are no longer living in Victorian Britain, and nowadays the punishments at times seem to be out of kilter with a modern Britain.
Why are we also still relying, at times, on medieval laws in order to deal with 21st century offences/offenders? Can't remember exactly what, but there was such an example only a few months or so ago. Ridiculous.
The whole system needs a radical overhaul. Just one example, with the austere future looming for the country, more use should be made of the community service programme which, I believe, would be a far better form of punishment for many petty criminals who find themselves leading a life of privilege and luxury behind bars at taxpayers' expense. Instead, get them out doing some unpaid work for the communities they've stolen and robbed from.
Agree with Orc and Ken Clarke.
Let's have the guts to step up to this issue with relevant and practical measures instead of hiding behind the illusion that somehow we can terrorise society into functioning properly if we just turn the clock back to some mythical age when the prisons were really nasty and there was hardly any crime!
.
Let's have the guts to step up to this issue with relevant and practical measures instead of hiding behind the illusion that somehow we can terrorise society into functioning properly if we just turn the clock back to some mythical age when the prisons were really nasty and there was hardly any crime!
.
You have to ask what you are trying to achieve by sending people to prison.
If you're sending them to prison because they themselves are too great a risk to be walking around - that's something we all agree on.
The problem seems to lie in the idea of deterrant.
The right wing seem to love this idea -
Trouble is it doesn't work - you only have to look at the reoffending rates to see that
Those who agree with Geezer and YMB would have you believe that it's because prison isn't painful enough
It was pretty painful in Victorian England and it didn't work then either
****Deterrant does not deter people who don't think that they will be caught****
I have no idea why the right wing cannot grasp this simple truth
Rather than look for alternatives they still keep banging away at something that doesn't work
Pushing hard enough does not make a wall into a door guys
If you're sending them to prison because they themselves are too great a risk to be walking around - that's something we all agree on.
The problem seems to lie in the idea of deterrant.
The right wing seem to love this idea -
Trouble is it doesn't work - you only have to look at the reoffending rates to see that
Those who agree with Geezer and YMB would have you believe that it's because prison isn't painful enough
It was pretty painful in Victorian England and it didn't work then either
****Deterrant does not deter people who don't think that they will be caught****
I have no idea why the right wing cannot grasp this simple truth
Rather than look for alternatives they still keep banging away at something that doesn't work
Pushing hard enough does not make a wall into a door guys
youngmafbog
I'm afraid you didn't spot the Con. They say that the number of Police on the beat will not be cut. However, the target that each officer should spend at least 80% of their time on the beat has been dropped. So same number of beat personnel, just on the beat for less time.
// Labour's promise that neighbourhood police officers spend at least 80% of their time on the beat is being dropped with immediate effect, the home secretary, Theresa May, said today.
"The spending review has not begun yet, so we don't know the exact figures, but I must be clear," she warned. "We are not talking about a spending freeze or a reduction of 1% or 2%. The cuts will be big; they will be tough to achieve; and cuts will fall on the police as they will on other public services." //
http://www.guardian.c...ay-labour-police-beat
I'm afraid you didn't spot the Con. They say that the number of Police on the beat will not be cut. However, the target that each officer should spend at least 80% of their time on the beat has been dropped. So same number of beat personnel, just on the beat for less time.
// Labour's promise that neighbourhood police officers spend at least 80% of their time on the beat is being dropped with immediate effect, the home secretary, Theresa May, said today.
"The spending review has not begun yet, so we don't know the exact figures, but I must be clear," she warned. "We are not talking about a spending freeze or a reduction of 1% or 2%. The cuts will be big; they will be tough to achieve; and cuts will fall on the police as they will on other public services." //
http://www.guardian.c...ay-labour-police-beat
-- answer removed --
bibblebub
A link to a Mirror story, and you dare to accuse the Daily Mail of minimising the story to protect their chums in power.
Well this is the Daily Mail link, spot the difference?
http://tinyurl.com/3xkg3p9
A link to a Mirror story, and you dare to accuse the Daily Mail of minimising the story to protect their chums in power.
Well this is the Daily Mail link, spot the difference?
http://tinyurl.com/3xkg3p9
Instead of locking them up in their comfy cells at night, and letting them out during the day so they can play pool, workout in the luxury gyms etc.
Why not convert these vacant military bases into punishment venues, manned by ex-military personnel who will be at their necks 24/7.
Just ask any ex or serving military personnel, would they like to return to their 'square bashing' days? I don't think there would be many to say "Yes please".
Why not convert these vacant military bases into punishment venues, manned by ex-military personnel who will be at their necks 24/7.
Just ask any ex or serving military personnel, would they like to return to their 'square bashing' days? I don't think there would be many to say "Yes please".
"Slashing Police numbers" ? So, where's the originality in that? I have personal experience when, as a Police Officer, of being on shift with literally no more than a handful of us, and having to cover areas with populations of at least 100,000 depending on us.
On the other hand, I have also been stationed in a city whose main crime area was saturated by Police patrols.
Nowadays, there are virtually no Road Traffic units left, most of them were absorbed back into so called "ordinary policing", but that was to try to replace Officers who had been already lost to Forces due to cutbacks etc.
A serious and swingeing reduction in top heavy Police management would undoubtedly help. For example, who and what is ACPO? What meaningful Police function do they actually perform? Getting rid of that lot would probably finance a couple of hundred more "real" cops for a start. There are far too many Police personnel manning desks in "nicks", seeing out their time, instead of out on the streets where Joe Public expect them to be.
Coppers on the Beat will not solve society's ills, but there again, how can anyone measure the deterrent factor which it would bring with it. Speaking of which, I do, however, subscribe to the view that the re-introduction of capital punishment would act as a significant deterrent to would be murderers. After all, they are presently faced with the proverbial life of Riley if banged up, whereas the possibility of being topped must surely persuade any such scr%tes to think again? Simplistic, but very effective.
On the other hand, I have also been stationed in a city whose main crime area was saturated by Police patrols.
Nowadays, there are virtually no Road Traffic units left, most of them were absorbed back into so called "ordinary policing", but that was to try to replace Officers who had been already lost to Forces due to cutbacks etc.
A serious and swingeing reduction in top heavy Police management would undoubtedly help. For example, who and what is ACPO? What meaningful Police function do they actually perform? Getting rid of that lot would probably finance a couple of hundred more "real" cops for a start. There are far too many Police personnel manning desks in "nicks", seeing out their time, instead of out on the streets where Joe Public expect them to be.
Coppers on the Beat will not solve society's ills, but there again, how can anyone measure the deterrent factor which it would bring with it. Speaking of which, I do, however, subscribe to the view that the re-introduction of capital punishment would act as a significant deterrent to would be murderers. After all, they are presently faced with the proverbial life of Riley if banged up, whereas the possibility of being topped must surely persuade any such scr%tes to think again? Simplistic, but very effective.
-- answer removed --
I don't like the sound of "payment by results" which Mr Clarke is suggesting as a way forward to private security firms employed within the Criminal Justice system. It smacks of some kind of bonus scheme, or quantity rather than quality. It's a far more important subject which has to be resolved for the betterment of the public.
The key to it all must surely be some effective deterrents put in place to try to prevent, rather than cure, when things have long since gone beyond recall. And simply banging every offender away isn't also the answer.
Call me old fashioned, anyone who knows me would anyway, but it all begins at the grass roots level that is parenting. Then we have a substantial lack of respect for authority, instead of which we get kids being encouraged to see so and so as a "role model" to whom they should look up to. Trouble is, loads of these "role models" appear to be hardly any better than the scumbags we're trying to stamp out. Also, that basic lack of respect for our fellow man is endemic in large parts of society, lots of whom are far too preoccupied with their own little lives to relate to any of their peers or the wider public in general, i.e. how many people nowadays even know their neighbours or have anything in common with them?
Deep subjects which could be discussed until the cows come home, but perhaps society as a whole needs to seriously address lots of the basics before we can even begin to try to unravel the complexities of our CJ system?
The key to it all must surely be some effective deterrents put in place to try to prevent, rather than cure, when things have long since gone beyond recall. And simply banging every offender away isn't also the answer.
Call me old fashioned, anyone who knows me would anyway, but it all begins at the grass roots level that is parenting. Then we have a substantial lack of respect for authority, instead of which we get kids being encouraged to see so and so as a "role model" to whom they should look up to. Trouble is, loads of these "role models" appear to be hardly any better than the scumbags we're trying to stamp out. Also, that basic lack of respect for our fellow man is endemic in large parts of society, lots of whom are far too preoccupied with their own little lives to relate to any of their peers or the wider public in general, i.e. how many people nowadays even know their neighbours or have anything in common with them?
Deep subjects which could be discussed until the cows come home, but perhaps society as a whole needs to seriously address lots of the basics before we can even begin to try to unravel the complexities of our CJ system?
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