Assault on Ian Tomlinson immediately prior to his death

[Zeuhl]

So if the DPP reckon they can't prove beyond reasonable doubt that the assault by the police officer actually caused Ian Tomlinson's death;

should we expect the officer to at least be prosecuted for assault?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/...gland-london-10723274

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[sandyRoe]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[Ankou]

there was enough evidence to charge the officer who hit mr tomlinson with assault but the six month time limit to do so has expired.

[joeluke]

^ how convenient

[Davethedog]

At what point would you say the police should stop?
This guy walked through a demonstration that at the least was antagonistic, the copper told hiim not to walk there, he lipped the copper. The copper tries to push him in the right direction and the guy go's over then suffers a heart attack.

Remember they guy had been drinking. Where should the copper have stopped, given that neither you or I have any idea if the cooper meant to actualy push him over.

This is clear on the video the push was hard but far short of assualt

[joeluke]

Dave......surely you're not saying that from watching the video of the incident you believe that the police officer's run and barge on Mr Tomlinson was not intentional????

It was virtually a hard rugby tackle without the use of hands

[Gromit]

KNOW YOUR RIGHTS

Number 1
You have the right not to be killed
Murder is a CRIME!
Unless it was done by a
Policeman

[sandyRoe]

When the authorities set their dogs on someone you can't really expect the dog to be punished for doing what it was told.

[Davethedog]

I am not taking anyside yes he was barged.

All I am saying at what point does the copper stop. Thats all should he have allowed Tomlinson to hit him? Spit at him? What.

You will say Tomlinson didn't do that and I am not saying he was going to but the copper is in a highly volotile situation and he doesn't know whats going to happen next.

[Zeuhl]

We should all respect the fact that the police have a difficult job in these big demonstrations, but we all have a right to peacefully protest and we certainly have a right to have a few beers then walk home from work along the street.

Looking at the video, Tomlinson is clearly no threat and is walking past the officers. He is struck from behind, without warning, hard enough to knock him off his feet. By any objective judgement; a cowardly and unprovoked attack.

There appears to be no purpose to the blow. One can only guess that its purpose was for the officer to vent some frustration or demonstrate his physical dominance over someone who had annoyed him in some way.

We pay the police to protect us from thugs - not to be one themselves.

If the video had been captured on a town centre CCTV, the victim later died and the perpetrator was confirmed as YOU - what would you expect to happen?
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[Davethedog]

Good point well made and very hard to disagree

[jake-the-peg]

I tend to feel that if Tomlinson had pushed a police officer in that way there would definately have been a charge of assault.

However I don't personally think the nature of the blow recklessly endangered Tomlinson's life, you wouldn't have observed the incident and have thought "My God he could have been killed!" so I think the CPS were right not to press charges relating to his death

[Ankou]

but if the copper had bonked him with a baton and pushed him to the ground but he had not died, then we wouldn't even be discussing this. to charge a copper with assault in a situation of civil unrest would be a bit of a nonsense wouldn't it ?

[jake-the-peg]

Not if the nature of the assault was disproportionate.

For example civil unrest or no - if a Policeman for example tasered someone and then stood over him beating him with a truncheon we'd rightly be calling for action.

Personally I'm not that convinced shoving him there was that disproportionate - He did not appear to be acknowledging the Police's instructions when they were tring to clear the road - but it is difficult to be sure it's the sort of incident that can clearly be seen from 2 different viewpoints.

[Zeuhl]

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What definition of 'civil unrest' was Tomlinson enacting when he was attacked?
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[Sqad]

Obese, pissed, off his normal track home, involved in a nasty, vicious demonstration, allegedly giving the policeman a "mouthful" he was pushed to the ground........seems normal response to me.

First PM....Heart attack
2nd PM......Internal bleeding........which could mean anything, certainly nothing to do with being pushed to the floor.
3rd PM....Results not disclosed.

Manslaughter.....out of the question on medical grounds.
Assault...........he was pushed to the ground in a very volatile situation.

The DPP came to the right conclusion in my opinion.

[jake-the-peg]

He was in a protest area that the police were trying to clear

He appears to ignore their instructions - he certainly ignores them - so they push him on his way and he falls because he has his hands in his pockets.

Don't you think this is a bit odd?

If a bunch of police were coming up behind you and called to you - would you just ignore them and keep walking without making eye contact?

One might almost say deliberately antagonistic

[Zeuhl]

Even if Tomlinson had not responded to a police instruction, the valid question remains, what was the purpose of the attack?

Was it to resist his advance on the police line? No

Was it to drive him away? He was already walking away.

I may be a bolshy old Brit, but personally I fundamentally object to the idea that wandering down the street, minding my own business, a bit pissed and then paying insufficient heed to a police officer yelling at me - is deserving of a clubbing in the back.

Or are we supposed to cower in front of our police? And if they say jump are we supposed to ask 'how high?'.

Maybe in some countries, but heaven help us, not in Britain.
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[in a mo]

What would you do if YOU were the Policeman ,what would your opinion be .

[Davethedog]

If you disregard "the incident" there is a question of police procedure.

The policewant to clear the ground as what they see a threatening situation developing.

If the policeman asked him to move and he swore or disregarded him and was asked again the copper wants to see the ground.

I have honestly seen the same action taken a number of times both by policemen at football grounds and Music venues and also by "security" at pubs, clubs and music venues.

The questions, for which I do not have an answer, are simply, complicated. 1) Did the officers actions contribute to Mr Tomlinson death. 2) Did the officers actions constitute assualt or not.

I didn't hear the evidence so I don't know.

[Sqad]

ººººAnd if they say jump are we supposed to ask 'how high?'ººººº

Perhaps we, in the UK, should learn to reply "How high"

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