Reform Manifesto For The Uk General...
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RAF Bomber Command memorial
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http://tinyurl.com/3agqkbo
So German politicians have called on Britain to abandon plans to build a memorial to RAF bomber crews.
Why are the British always being asked to apologise?
We lost 55,573 RAF bomber crew personal, in WW2, so it is deserving that a memorial is created in our capital, to remember these brave airmen who set out each night to fly the skies of Europe..
Yes 45,000 innocent German civilians lost their lives in Hamburg alone, and another 25,000 - 35,000 in Dresden during WW2, but 20,083 Londoners, plus 23,602 in other parts of Britain were killed in the Blitz itself.
This was war, and after all the Germans started bombing civilians..
So German politicians have called on Britain to abandon plans to build a memorial to RAF bomber crews.
Why are the British always being asked to apologise?
We lost 55,573 RAF bomber crew personal, in WW2, so it is deserving that a memorial is created in our capital, to remember these brave airmen who set out each night to fly the skies of Europe..
Yes 45,000 innocent German civilians lost their lives in Hamburg alone, and another 25,000 - 35,000 in Dresden during WW2, but 20,083 Londoners, plus 23,602 in other parts of Britain were killed in the Blitz itself.
This was war, and after all the Germans started bombing civilians..
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//when one sees the masses giving the Nazi salute//
Gosh I wonder who was filming that?
Nazi propaganda to show a unified country - and you fall for it over half a century later
Isn't the truth that you love WWII because it's easy to look at in simplistic black and white terms and you can wrap yourself in the flag and trumpet Nationalistic rubbish?
A bit like your mates in the BNP and their posters of (polish) Spitfires
Gosh I wonder who was filming that?
Nazi propaganda to show a unified country - and you fall for it over half a century later
Isn't the truth that you love WWII because it's easy to look at in simplistic black and white terms and you can wrap yourself in the flag and trumpet Nationalistic rubbish?
A bit like your mates in the BNP and their posters of (polish) Spitfires
jake...I have read your post over and over again and I think.....just think...that I have grasped your meaning.
<<Nazi propaganda to show a unified country - and you fall for it over half a century later<<<
Between 1939---1945, when the Luftwaffe were bombing our cities, the degree of unity in Germany was never an issue. ALL Germans were our enemy.
<<<Isn't the truth that you love WWII because it's easy to look at in simplistic black and white terms and you can wrap yourself in the flag and trumpet Nationalistic rubbish?<<<
LOL you will have to explain that sentence to me...............in simple terms.
<<Nazi propaganda to show a unified country - and you fall for it over half a century later<<<
Between 1939---1945, when the Luftwaffe were bombing our cities, the degree of unity in Germany was never an issue. ALL Germans were our enemy.
<<<Isn't the truth that you love WWII because it's easy to look at in simplistic black and white terms and you can wrap yourself in the flag and trumpet Nationalistic rubbish?<<<
LOL you will have to explain that sentence to me...............in simple terms.
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i dunno really, just think its another pigeon pech looking backwards rather than forwards. not against it as such, just think we should move on.
3.5 million quid could build and equip a new unit for the teenage cancer trust to provide teenagers diagnosed with cancer access to dedicated, specialist support.
3.5 million quid could build and equip a new unit for the teenage cancer trust to provide teenagers diagnosed with cancer access to dedicated, specialist support.
Through out the country there are memorials to the men and women of all branches of the armed forces who served and died in WW II, except or the men of Bomber Command, well what ever your feelings about the bombing of Germany these men served their country and served it well and at a time when the country was in dire straits. My own opinion for what it's worth is that it's a national disgrace that it's taken so long to do any thing about it and any poloitician who bows down to pressure and tries to veto it deserves to be booted out of office. These men, many of them just boys,played a part as important in war as any man on D-Day or pilot in the Battle of Britain, the difference being these men were seen to be involved in some thing "Clean and Heroic"if there can be such a thing in war the Bomber Boys Job was deemed to be some how dirty and dishonourable
"Yes 45,000 innocent German civilians lost their lives in Hamburg alone, and another 25,000 - 35,000 in Dresden during WW2, but 20,083 Londoners, plus 23,602 in other parts of Britain were killed in the Blitz itself"
The bombing of Dresden was a few days and the Blitz was almost a year, fewer Londoners were killed in a far longer period so it is hardly a fair comparison..
Yes, many were killed on both sides but I am sure we can understand the feelings of the Dresden mayor.
The bombing of Dresden was a few days and the Blitz was almost a year, fewer Londoners were killed in a far longer period so it is hardly a fair comparison..
Yes, many were killed on both sides but I am sure we can understand the feelings of the Dresden mayor.
if it had been done 50 years ago or more, there would have been no complaint from either side. It's common to remember the dead... while people still remember them. The Germans are no doubt wondering why it's being done 65 years late, when there are very few people alive who remember any of those for whom the memorial is planned; and so am I. Just Brits still desperately refighting a long-gone war because they know they've done nothing important since, I suppose.
I was born in 1937, so lived through the war. Our home was on the east coast of Scotland and of no great strategic importance. However, inland, there were several airfields which WERE significant. German bombers would target these and - as they passed over the coast on the way home - they would simply drop any remaining bombs on us rather than 'waste' them. The closest to me and mine landed about 100 yards away and killed people well-known to us. Don't talk to ME about Dresden or any other supposedly unjustified bombing.
As Basil Fawlty said of the Germans, "You started it!"
Consequently, they should have been prepared to "dree their weird", as the Scottish saying has it. That means "suffer or submit to their destiny". Well, done, Bomber, and all your lads!
As Basil Fawlty said of the Germans, "You started it!"
Consequently, they should have been prepared to "dree their weird", as the Scottish saying has it. That means "suffer or submit to their destiny". Well, done, Bomber, and all your lads!
Jake:
Historical research over the last decade or so has actually implied that there -was- substantial support for the German government right up until the latest point of the war.
As far as we can tell, depending on exactly where in Germany you look, Hitler's approval ratings right after the Anschluss and after the conquest of France were astronomical. The Germans seem to have been quite eager to support the war so long as it was going well, and probably - like any other nation of the time - were grateful for the sense of shared struggle and national pride the government was so good at providing for them.
Read 'Backing Hitler'.
"
Isn't the truth that you love WWII because it's easy to look at in simplistic black and white terms and you can wrap yourself in the flag and trumpet Nationalistic rubbish?"
I agree with this observation, though.
Historical research over the last decade or so has actually implied that there -was- substantial support for the German government right up until the latest point of the war.
As far as we can tell, depending on exactly where in Germany you look, Hitler's approval ratings right after the Anschluss and after the conquest of France were astronomical. The Germans seem to have been quite eager to support the war so long as it was going well, and probably - like any other nation of the time - were grateful for the sense of shared struggle and national pride the government was so good at providing for them.
Read 'Backing Hitler'.
"
Isn't the truth that you love WWII because it's easy to look at in simplistic black and white terms and you can wrap yourself in the flag and trumpet Nationalistic rubbish?"
I agree with this observation, though.
If you want some idea of what the Germans thought about Hitler and the war I suggest you watch Laurence Rees' excellent documentary "The Nazis-A Warning From History". Based on the work of Professor Ian Kershaw it contains interviews with many germans who lived through and participated in the war and to be honest most of them gave the impression that they believed wholeheartedly in Hitler and showed little remorse apart from the fact they lost
Ankou
/// aog, would you be happy with a luftwaffe memorial commemorating the
blitz ? ///
If only you understood what the issue was under debate, you would not make yourself appear so silly.
This memorial is not commemorating the bombing of German cities, it is commemorating the RAF bomber crews.
I would have no objection to the Germans erecting a similar memorial in Berlin to their Luftwaffe bomber crews.
/// aog, would you be happy with a luftwaffe memorial commemorating the
blitz ? ///
If only you understood what the issue was under debate, you would not make yourself appear so silly.
This memorial is not commemorating the bombing of German cities, it is commemorating the RAF bomber crews.
I would have no objection to the Germans erecting a similar memorial in Berlin to their Luftwaffe bomber crews.
but would you feel differently if you had survived (say) the Coventry bombing, aog?
Incidentally, as to who started the terror bombing, I did read some time ago - I think it may have been in BBC History magazine, but I can't find any link - suggesting the British did. Apparently the Germans hadn't been bombing civilians until one British bomber, presumably accidentally, dropped some on a non-military target; then Hitler was so angry he ordered the carpet bombing on Coventry. I don't know for sure if this is true - and if it is, I'm not 'blaming' the British, just pointing out that things can get quite random in the fog of war.
Incidentally, as to who started the terror bombing, I did read some time ago - I think it may have been in BBC History magazine, but I can't find any link - suggesting the British did. Apparently the Germans hadn't been bombing civilians until one British bomber, presumably accidentally, dropped some on a non-military target; then Hitler was so angry he ordered the carpet bombing on Coventry. I don't know for sure if this is true - and if it is, I'm not 'blaming' the British, just pointing out that things can get quite random in the fog of war.
I was born in 1952 and therefore have no personal knowledge of WW2, other than I have been able to live my life in a peaceful way, able to make my own choices. This is why I have contributed to the building of this memorial.
It has been a long time in coming but nevertheless still most worthy of being built.
It is because of the brave men and women and children of those horrific times that we can live the life we do today. I am extremely humbled by those peoples' willingness to stand up against threats to our country and its way of life, many of whom paid the supreme sacrifice.
Other posters on here have spoken of the 'no winners in war scenario'. We all know this to be true - war is the most terrible thing I can imagine.
Those who were connected with Bomber Command are long overdue for a physical monument to their courage.
It has been a long time in coming but nevertheless still most worthy of being built.
It is because of the brave men and women and children of those horrific times that we can live the life we do today. I am extremely humbled by those peoples' willingness to stand up against threats to our country and its way of life, many of whom paid the supreme sacrifice.
Other posters on here have spoken of the 'no winners in war scenario'. We all know this to be true - war is the most terrible thing I can imagine.
Those who were connected with Bomber Command are long overdue for a physical monument to their courage.
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