ChatterBank17 mins ago
easyjet
I see easyjet had to take 30 passengers off one of its planes because it was overloaded with fuel..Why could'nt they take the fuel back out? is there no valve or drainage point?
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It's just the same as if you accidentally pumped more fuel into your car's tank than you'd got the money to pay for. There's no easy way to put it back!!!
Clanad is AB's resident expert on airline matters (because he's a commercial transatlantic pilot), so you'll need his expertise to do some exact calculations but the error could easily relate to at least a ton of fuel. You can't simply pour that lot into a few empty barrels!
Chris
Clanad is AB's resident expert on airline matters (because he's a commercial transatlantic pilot), so you'll need his expertise to do some exact calculations but the error could easily relate to at least a ton of fuel. You can't simply pour that lot into a few empty barrels!
Chris
But there probably aren't any tankers at Birmingham, Sammmo. Nearly all international airports now refuel aircraft from tanks below the aircraft stands. Putting fuel into those tanks is, of course, done by tankers delivering to the airports but, because of the risk of fire or explosion, the transfer is done under very controlled conditions. There is no facility for pumping fuel from an aircraft under the same conditions.
As you state, aircraft have the facility to 'dump' fuel in an emergency by simply opening a valve, but dumping a ton of fuel on a taxiway isn't regarded as particularly safe!
As you state, aircraft have the facility to 'dump' fuel in an emergency by simply opening a valve, but dumping a ton of fuel on a taxiway isn't regarded as particularly safe!
surely the tank is designed not to hold more than it could lift with a plane load of passengers? and they only put the correct amount of fuel for the journey they are making to cut down on costs.. so how can this happen? also there must have been another plane at the airport that had'nt been refueld that could have had the correct amount of fuel put in for this trip and the passengers etc transfered to that plane..
The fuel tank on an aircraft must (when full) hold enough fuel for a full load of passengers, with a maximum load of baggage, travelling the maximum distance that the aircraft can fly (including fuel for diverting to an alternative airport if necessary). Modern 737s can fly over 3000 nautical miles (and up to 5000 nautical miles, depending upon the model and other factors, such as weather conditions).
It's only about 480 nautical miles from Birmingham to Geneva, so (allowing for the provision to divert to an alternative airport), the pilot might have been required to load fuel for a 600nm flight. If he accidentally loaded a full tank load (for a 3000nm flight) that's 5 times as much fuel as required.
Of course an aircraft ought to be able to take off when fully loaded with passengers, baggage and fuel, but that assumes that the runway is long enough. At only 2600m the Birmingham runway is too short. (It's due for extension to 3150m precisely because it's not really adequate for the needs of the aircraft which use it).
It's only about 480 nautical miles from Birmingham to Geneva, so (allowing for the provision to divert to an alternative airport), the pilot might have been required to load fuel for a 600nm flight. If he accidentally loaded a full tank load (for a 3000nm flight) that's 5 times as much fuel as required.
Of course an aircraft ought to be able to take off when fully loaded with passengers, baggage and fuel, but that assumes that the runway is long enough. At only 2600m the Birmingham runway is too short. (It's due for extension to 3150m precisely because it's not really adequate for the needs of the aircraft which use it).
quite simply, there are various regulatory agencies that set the fuel rules. the airline has to comply with those. you have to arrive at your destination with the applicable reserves and then fuel to get to your alternate. on a long distance flight, for every 1000kgs of extra fuel you take off with, it will cost you about 550kgs to carry it. so your net fuel is now 450kgs. so, airlines try to take enough fuel but not too much as it takes more to lift it in to the sky. this is also apparent with the safe landing aspect. if the airline has too much fuel when it is coming in to land, it can either dump it, which no doubt would be controversial and costly, but if they didn’t then there is increased risk that any anomaly to the craft in the landing pattern could ignite a lot more fuel than the authorities or airline would want.
add to that the problems easyjet would face if something happened on the flight and an inquiry finds that they took on too much fuel.
i fail to see what sitting on the plane would have achieved. its not a public service, and the plane would not have gone anywhere. to open the valves – which are there primarily to drain any water from the fuel pipes – is also a hazard that would merit removing passengers from a plane.
add to that the problems easyjet would face if something happened on the flight and an inquiry finds that they took on too much fuel.
i fail to see what sitting on the plane would have achieved. its not a public service, and the plane would not have gone anywhere. to open the valves – which are there primarily to drain any water from the fuel pipes – is also a hazard that would merit removing passengers from a plane.
There are fine calculations when it comes to fueling an aircraft. Basically the plane was too heavy for take off. They couldn`t drain the fuel out (they can do it when flying by opening valves and it sprays into the atmosphere) but they can`t do it on the ground. They had to reduce the weight for the aircraft to get into the air and the only way to do that was to remove passangers and baggage. In answer to your question mushroom about what charge the passengers would face, well if the captain asked them to get off the charge would be disobeying and order given by the crew which is under CAA laws
The fuel dump system cannot be used to pump fuel out of a plane it is effectively a sprinkler system so that wehn dumped the fuel will vapourise in the air.
Believe it or not there are other applications for a plane that just transporting people. The size of the tank gives it a huge range for leightwe4ight cargo for example. Now this particular plane is a passenger plane but the make and model will also be used for other functions. This is basically a c0kc up by the refuelers, the solution of removing people is the correct one under the regulations and of course Elf n Safetee!
Believe it or not there are other applications for a plane that just transporting people. The size of the tank gives it a huge range for leightwe4ight cargo for example. Now this particular plane is a passenger plane but the make and model will also be used for other functions. This is basically a c0kc up by the refuelers, the solution of removing people is the correct one under the regulations and of course Elf n Safetee!
As always, thanks to Chris for his reference...
As with almost anything airplane related, there's lots of misunderstanding. The fuel system on transport category airplanes is at the top of the list. In fact, during an examination for a Type Rating for a new pilot in command on large aircraft (more than 12,500 pounds) an inordinate amount of time is spent by the candidate explaining his/her knowledge of this system
The aircraft can be both fueled and defueled from the ground. On most transport category aircraft the "single point" fueling system is accessed through a panel on the underside of the leading edge of the right wing. Simply stated, a valving system and fuel quantity gauges (replicating the ones in the cockpit) are located at that site enabling the fueler to add or subtract fuel.
A relatively easy and quick process.
Fuel is the most easily manipulated weight in the aircraft... up to the points to which Chris and Ankou allude.
Enough fuel is required to get to the destination, make an instrumet approach, miss it and fly to the alternate airport declared in the flight plan as well as fly for another hour after that. All pilots fudge that to the "fat" side, if possible.
A word about flying with too much fuel.. It's deleterious to performance (and therefore, expensive) to "tanker" fuel. Weight equals lack of perfomance and more cost so the Dispatch Department will begin to question the Captains addition of reserve fuel after a certain point... Constant fight with those guys...
As with almost anything airplane related, there's lots of misunderstanding. The fuel system on transport category airplanes is at the top of the list. In fact, during an examination for a Type Rating for a new pilot in command on large aircraft (more than 12,500 pounds) an inordinate amount of time is spent by the candidate explaining his/her knowledge of this system
The aircraft can be both fueled and defueled from the ground. On most transport category aircraft the "single point" fueling system is accessed through a panel on the underside of the leading edge of the right wing. Simply stated, a valving system and fuel quantity gauges (replicating the ones in the cockpit) are located at that site enabling the fueler to add or subtract fuel.
A relatively easy and quick process.
Fuel is the most easily manipulated weight in the aircraft... up to the points to which Chris and Ankou allude.
Enough fuel is required to get to the destination, make an instrumet approach, miss it and fly to the alternate airport declared in the flight plan as well as fly for another hour after that. All pilots fudge that to the "fat" side, if possible.
A word about flying with too much fuel.. It's deleterious to performance (and therefore, expensive) to "tanker" fuel. Weight equals lack of perfomance and more cost so the Dispatch Department will begin to question the Captains addition of reserve fuel after a certain point... Constant fight with those guys...
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