Egypt

[brionon]

Do the News services not realise that the Big imponderable in the Egypt crisis is Not Mabarek nor the Army but the Ayatollahs ? So why No mention of them on the News ?

[jno]

whose ayatollahs? Al Jazeera seems to be discussing the religious angle from time to time, if that's what you're suggesting; but the riots seem to be more sociopolitical than religious. Religious groups like the Muslim Brotherhood have long sought to capitalise on this, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're able to.

[anotheoldgit]

For the same reasons that one can't report or discuss certain issues on AB.

[Mosaic]

As Jno says, there doesn't appear to be a large radical presence in Egypt, and unlike Iraq, Iran and Pakistan, Egypt seems only in the past five-six years to have tipped into serious poverty and unemployment - the breeding grounds of radicalism and unrest.
Prior to that, although most people were poor they could afford food and a home, you didn't see hungry people and most people seemed contented. When I last went to Cairo in April there was an edginess I hadn't seen before, and reports of poor farmers being kicked off their land by wealthy landowners were abounding.
The use of mobile phones and the internet has I think empowered ordinary people in Egypt, and having seen the exampe of Tunisia I suppose there has been a great feeling of 'what is there to lose?'

[jackthehat]

I think POF is in danger of getting his sulky bottom lip entangled with his slippers.........

As jno says, presently the uprising seems to be disatisfaction with the political situation and the religionists are yet to hijack it for their own purposes. Whether they have the capability to do so, or whether it will stay firmly in the political arena is yet to unfold.

[jake-the-peg]

Ayatollah is a Shia title - there are only a few thousand shia Muslims in Egypt - the vast majority being Sunni - and of course the Coptic Christian population.

There is quite a tight control of religious clerics in Egypt by the state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Egypt

[Whickerman]

Jake - that's what the worry is. If the state (Mubarak by any other name) falls, that control will cease. There are no reports of militant clerics because the press is tightly controlled but large swathes of Egypt have been no-go areas for tourists or years.

Noted with overwhelming joy that a large crowd of demonstrators joined with the security forces to protect the Museum from looters the other day.

[keyplus90]

Whay Ayatollah has got to do with all this. People are just fedup with USA backed puppet rulers who have done nothing for their own people but have safe guarded American Interests in the area. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are next on the list where American are getting most of the wealth through controlling the Oil. Wait and see.

[sandyRoe]

The danger in Egypt is that the present repressive regime will be replaced by a theocratic regime which will be just as bad.
America backed the Shah in Iran. When he fell the Ayatollah's took power. In Egypt it could be the Muslim Brotherhood.

[modeller]

It has been apparent for years that clerics try to take over a state and impose their beliefs wherever they get the chance. Turkey is an example of a democratic secular state where a religious party won the last election and almost immediately the Islamic rhetoric increased. I have been told by a Turkish neighbour some women are being verbally abused for not wearing the veil.

When I say clerics I am not referring to Islam . It is a characteristic of theists in history everywhere .Israel is supposed to be democratic but it is the clerics who call the tune .

As sandy said // America backed the Shah in Iran. When he fell the Ayatollah's took power. In Egypt it could be the Muslim Brotherhood. //

[anotheoldgit]

Look what happened in Iraq, after they got rid of Saddam Hussain

The Sunnis and the Shias couldn't wait to tear each another to pieces, imagine if this was to happen in Egypt?

It would take years (if it ever happened) to get some form of order restored.

[jake-the-peg]

Imagine if this were to happen in Egypt?

The Sunnis would spend all their time looking for a shi'a to attack considering how thin on the ground they are there.

The point was that considering how much talk about Islam goes on on this board a lot of people seem woefully ignorant about it .

Seems to me a lot of people on here think Sunni and Shi'a were a 70s pop duet!

[keyplus90]

If CIA and Black Waters had not (and do not) acted the way they did then even in Iraq nothing had happened between Sunni or Shia. It is very old and well known "Divide and Rule" policy. But USA has added another policy into the list if divide and rule does not work then they switch to "Destroy and Leave". You look in the past or present situation is the same.

[modeller]

keyplus You do seem to have a grudge against the Americans. Any particular reason ?

You are I believe rather religious ( excuse me if I'm wrong ) and the USA is the most declared religious country in the world, so I would have thought you would have some empathy with their philosophy.

[Mosaic]

Which parts of Egypt have been no-go for foreigners, Whickerman?
Apart from military bases?
I know that the police would always be aware / wary of a whitey wandering 'off piste' so to speak, but I've never actaully been stopped and turned back.

[jake-the-peg]

Areas of Egypt are no go for foreigners for their safety.

There have in the past been some nasty attacks on tourists and the Egyptian government isvery protective of its tourist industy.

So for example if you're gong to the Red sea from Luxor as I did some years ago you'll be driven in convoy across the desert

[Mosaic]

Jake, the 'convoys for tourists' came about after the terrorist attack at Deir-el-Bahri in 1997. This took the form of a surprise attack by a maverick group of extremists who machine-gunned tourists at the temple site. It speaks volumes that the locals helped to hunt down the perpetrators at the time.
Since that time the Egyptian authorities have been paranoid about any possibility of recurrence of this type of attack. Since then, car bombings and suicide attacks have become the preferred terrorist method - as seen at Shrm in 2005 and a couple of isolated city incidents. All governments find these very hard to predict and prevent, but Egypt has taken the view that they can prevent the kind of mass ambush that happened in '97 - hence the convoys that take you across places where you might reasonably expect an ambush.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Mubarak's dictatorship, but it's inaccurate to describe every aspect of life there as repressive.

[Mosaic]

Soz Jake that shd be Whickerman I was replying to.