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How strong is your faith
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You are in an airliner and the captain and co-pilot have collapsed.
Amoung the passengers are a retired pilot (atheist) who has not flown a jet but and is a bit out of practice and a priest / rabbi / imam (whatever ) who is convinced with Gods aid he can land it although he has never flown anything other than a PC "flight simulator".
You have to choose - who do pick to land the plane?
Amoung the passengers are a retired pilot (atheist) who has not flown a jet but and is a bit out of practice and a priest / rabbi / imam (whatever ) who is convinced with Gods aid he can land it although he has never flown anything other than a PC "flight simulator".
You have to choose - who do pick to land the plane?
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Ah I see. Are we talking about your every day unqualified religionist, or can one who possesses a pilot's licence and is probably capable of landing the plane themselves answer?
In any event, I do not think this is a test of faith really, it is a test of your faith in people�s competence and faith in their faith. My faith would guide and lead me to make the right decision which would be to choose the person best suited to the purpose. If I required the last rites I would chose the priest over the pilot. Has my faith been tested? Dunno, but you could consider that God has gifted this pilot with the skills required to preserve his followers, and that God placed him/her on the plane at the same time as me. Lucky or worthy of thanks to God?
However, I do see your point in some respects, so I imagine in future, I shall always be carrying a red pencil.
In any event, I do not think this is a test of faith really, it is a test of your faith in people�s competence and faith in their faith. My faith would guide and lead me to make the right decision which would be to choose the person best suited to the purpose. If I required the last rites I would chose the priest over the pilot. Has my faith been tested? Dunno, but you could consider that God has gifted this pilot with the skills required to preserve his followers, and that God placed him/her on the plane at the same time as me. Lucky or worthy of thanks to God?
However, I do see your point in some respects, so I imagine in future, I shall always be carrying a red pencil.
Sorry Jake it's a bit of daft question.
You pick the man who knows the job. It's obvious isn't it.
Even for a baptist like me who some on here would think is thick just because of my beliefs, I know who the right man for the job is and never mind his religion.
The pilot, be him athiest or what ever simply because he's the one with the job skills.
You pick the man who knows the job. It's obvious isn't it.
Even for a baptist like me who some on here would think is thick just because of my beliefs, I know who the right man for the job is and never mind his religion.
The pilot, be him athiest or what ever simply because he's the one with the job skills.
Octavius is right - if you believe in God, God gave us all individual talents and if he gave the pilot the inteliigence to be a pilot then I would trust in him.
If the outcome was inevitable and there was no hope, would I turn to the priest for forgiveness, or just pray to my God?
The latter I think - I don't have much faith in priests!!
If the outcome was inevitable and there was no hope, would I turn to the priest for forgiveness, or just pray to my God?
The latter I think - I don't have much faith in priests!!
It depends on:
1) what day of the week it is - if it's a Sunday this is God's day of rest he might be asleep somewhere and of no use
2) even with the priests faith what if the priest is actually blind, deaf, or both, or he might just have really bad glasses
3) the priests long cape and gown may be a disability factor he might trip over it on the way to the cockpit, it may also restrict his movements and reactions while trying to land the plane
4) Priests love of all creatures this might effect his judgment to take an emergency landing in a nature reserve.
For these reasons I would chose the retired pilot if of course it wasn't for the doctor on board.
5) Doctors are so well paid they are always on holiday and therefore always on a plane get them to treat the pilot and co-pilot, so they can land the plane.
1) what day of the week it is - if it's a Sunday this is God's day of rest he might be asleep somewhere and of no use
2) even with the priests faith what if the priest is actually blind, deaf, or both, or he might just have really bad glasses
3) the priests long cape and gown may be a disability factor he might trip over it on the way to the cockpit, it may also restrict his movements and reactions while trying to land the plane
4) Priests love of all creatures this might effect his judgment to take an emergency landing in a nature reserve.
For these reasons I would chose the retired pilot if of course it wasn't for the doctor on board.
5) Doctors are so well paid they are always on holiday and therefore always on a plane get them to treat the pilot and co-pilot, so they can land the plane.
Dave, that�s not really a test of faith though really is it. One could say that it was a miracle orchestrated by God (and many would). One could equally say it was shear luck and fortune that placed this particular person in a specific place that enabled them to live and survive for a week. Some would say that God placed them in that position in the first place and provided them sustenance, hope and the spirit to live on. Conversely there are many who would say that the 9,999 other people were sadly unlucky, in the wrong place at the wrong time, or that God had chosen them to join Him, or just that nature had claimed them.
Given the number of people in the world, you could attribute billions of opinions to each one of those. So who decides who is right since they will each think they are.
Given the number of people in the world, you could attribute billions of opinions to each one of those. So who decides who is right since they will each think they are.
And that is the point I think that Jake was sating.
I would see my scenario as blind chance - Luck. Wrong place wrong time.
However, in this no win argument, people of faith choose to see it as a purpose of a diety, a test of 10,000 familes faith, I have seen it as 10,000 sinners (?) However if this is God's purpose or test then he is not a very forgiving God is he.
I was 10 when Aberfan occured and from that day I have never believed in God
I would see my scenario as blind chance - Luck. Wrong place wrong time.
However, in this no win argument, people of faith choose to see it as a purpose of a diety, a test of 10,000 familes faith, I have seen it as 10,000 sinners (?) However if this is God's purpose or test then he is not a very forgiving God is he.
I was 10 when Aberfan occured and from that day I have never believed in God
I think only the extremists would really say that the 10,000 people died because they were sinners. I would wonder how they could know that. Invariably, if people see the death of these people as an act of God then they accept Gods forgiveness and judgement as final, no matter how harsh. If people do not believe in God, then how can they attribute any blame?
With the incident you refer to I see it as a sad tragedy bought about by the disastrous failings of the coal board in preventing it, and in my own personal belief I would say that my hope is that by the failings of man they might be bought comfort in a heavenly place. I wouldn�t say that God caused it. But I agree with you that such things are a true test of faith, one of which many would find good reason to turn away from it.
With the incident you refer to I see it as a sad tragedy bought about by the disastrous failings of the coal board in preventing it, and in my own personal belief I would say that my hope is that by the failings of man they might be bought comfort in a heavenly place. I wouldn�t say that God caused it. But I agree with you that such things are a true test of faith, one of which many would find good reason to turn away from it.
The point I was making is that people trust to faith when they have no other choice
Because deep down they know it doesn't work.
You can attribute a billion to one chance to the hand of God when you have the luxury of hindsight but nobody bets the farm on it when there's a realistic alternative option.
I'm pretty sure even the Archbishop of Canterbury would pick the pilot
Because deep down they know it doesn't work.
You can attribute a billion to one chance to the hand of God when you have the luxury of hindsight but nobody bets the farm on it when there's a realistic alternative option.
I'm pretty sure even the Archbishop of Canterbury would pick the pilot
China Doll - reminds me of the old joke.
Man is trapped on his roof in a flood and thw waters rising,
a boat comes along and offers the man a ride -"No thanks" says the man god will save me.
Half an hour later a helicopter comes past and offers him lift - -"No thanks" says the man god will save me.
The guy drowns as he walks into heaven God is waiting, the man say I died I thought you would save me.
God says I sent a boat and a helicopter what more did you want.
Man is trapped on his roof in a flood and thw waters rising,
a boat comes along and offers the man a ride -"No thanks" says the man god will save me.
Half an hour later a helicopter comes past and offers him lift - -"No thanks" says the man god will save me.
The guy drowns as he walks into heaven God is waiting, the man say I died I thought you would save me.
God says I sent a boat and a helicopter what more did you want.
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