Boiled eggs and Soldiers

[megfitz]

I was amazed to find that my American son-in-law had never heard of boiled eggs and soldiers, but I was unable to answer his query as to where the soldier part came from. I muttered vaguely about Humpty Dumpty (he'd not heard that either). Any information would be helpful to keep our Brit. end up many thanks.

[erin-x]

I would have thought that it comes from Humpty Dumpty as well. Sorry I'm not much help lol!

[Tilly2]

I think its just because you cut the bread into fingers and they are lined up like soldiers on a parade ground.

[Zippolover]

According to Wiki; A soldier is a British term that refers to a piece of toast or bread cut into thin strips reminiscent of the formation of soldiers on parade.

[ladyalex]

I've always thought it was because they looked like soldiers.
Hadn't thought of the Humpty Dumpty reference .

[starone]

Yes, they are all standing to attention if you have cut them nice and neatly.

[askyourgran]

I thought the 'soldiers' were originally for children's amusement to dip into the egg. 'All the kings horses' etc,

[Quizmonster]

What really amazed me was that the earliest recorded use of the word in this sense, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, dates back only to 1966.
If you have any verifiable written evidence of its having been used earlier, I'm sure the editorial team at the OED would be delighted to hear from you. (It's no good just 'claiming' you and yours were saying it in 1945!)

[heathfield]

Hi QM. I'm positive my old mum used to refer to them as 'soldiers' well before 1966 - so called because their uniform was a brown jacket and yellow trousers, she'd say. Oh well.

[Kiki-frog]

QM - 1966? Surely not! But then again probably a term has to have been in common use for a while before anyone bothers to write it down, so maybe that it right.

megfitz - Humpy Dumpty, for sure

[megfitz]

Thanks all, I can now refer to "my research" when I next speak to him.!!!

[Quizmonster]

As I said, H and Kiki, I was as surprised as you were. However, the OED does always make an effort to find the earliest verifiable use of words, so - in the absence of evidence to the contrary - I take their word for such things.
You may well have seen a TV series a year or two back called 'Balderdash and Piffle', featuring Victoria Coren. She researched such things and did manage to persuade the scholars at the OED to accept some of her findings. So, their minds are far from closed to new proof, which had to be in writing and pretty uncontestable.
Over to you to seek out your forebears' diaries or whatever!

[heathfield]

In my case it would simply be hearsay, alas, and thus not legally acceptable as evidence. Always better to refer others to an accepted standard reference when trying to argue one's case!

[mike11111]

I am amazed that the first written record is as late as 1966 as it was in common use in the early 50s and probably long before that. I am surprised that the expression did not figure in some earlier edition of children's fiction.

[Tilly2]

Yes Mike. It must be mentioned in one of Enid Blyton's books, I would have thought.

[mike11111]

Humpty Dumpty as an egg only dates from Lewis Carroll. The original Humpty Dumpty was a siege engine built by royalist forces during the Civil War which collapsed when they attempted to capture a town, hence the reference to all the king's horses &c.

[Canary42]

Soldiers was a common term for this item in my childhood (late Forties/early Fifties)

[Euphemia]

ditto

[Quizmonster]

It is precisely because of faulty childhood memories that the OED demands evidence in writing from a 'document' the age of which is verifiable. So, if anyone has a 1927 diary belonging to Granny with an entry reading, "Had boiled eggs and soldiers for breakfast this morning" I'm sure the editors would gladly consider it at least.
I am not at all convinced by any supposed Humpty Dumpty connection rather than the simple 'appearance' - rigidly straight, upright (when being dipped) and the different brown/yellow colours resembling a uniform - of a military man.

[megfitz]

Mike11111, excuse my ignorance but what is a siege engine? and which battle are we talking about, did the Roundheads have them also? Why was it called Humpty Dumpty , was it egg shaped?

[Quizmonster]

Megfitz, I notice Mike has not come back on this, so click http://www.phrases.or...d/9/messages/322.html for some more on Humpty Dumpty.