Try and answer!

[FredPuli43]

In everyday speech, people say "I'll try and do it" and so on, when they mean '"I'll try to do it". Taken literally, 'try and do it' means that the speaker will do it and so 'try' is unnecessary. If they do it, they must have tried and succeeded.

Is 'and do' incorrect? Or is this some correct grammatical construction which has a name? And does the use of 'and' bring some nuanced meaning which 'to' does not?

[MarkRae]

http://www.google.co.....osb&biw=1600&bih=753

But anything is better than "go ahead and"...

[jno]

they never say "I tried and did it" in the past, only "I tried to do it".

None the less, as you say, it's everyday speech - wrong but probably too common do do anything about. The English language isn't always logical. (Shouldn't "laughable" be "laughatable"?")

[MarkRae]

In theory, "laughable" ought to refer to someone or something which can laugh. However, -able tagged onto a verb often carries the meaning of the passive rather than the active. e.g.

a winnable race is one which can BE WON
an unsavable shot is one which cannot BE SAVED

So, laughable means something which can BE LAUGHED (at).

[mike11111]

I'm trying to think of a word in which the suffix -able has an active meaning but nothing springs immediately to mind.

[tara20]

enable?

[mike11111]

Able is not a suffix there, it is the main verb prefixed by en-.

[jno]

I guess that rules out "table", then.

[boxtops]

Taken literally by me, "I'll try and do it" means "I'll have a go at it" or "I'll see if I can fit it in", e.g. "I'll try", not "I'll do it".

[mike11111]

The more I think about it the more I am sure that it is a passive-only suffix.

[DTCwordfan]

should try living with an American when it comes to using these diplomatic "take-outs"..........

[MarkRae]

> The more I think about it the more I am sure that it is a passive-only suffix.

The Titanic was claimed to be unsinkable - that was definitely meant to convey that it couldn't sink, not that it couldn't be sunk.

[FredPuli43]

Yes,indeed boxtops, there is a nuance. To me, "I'll try to do it" means literally that, and no more. "I'll try and do it" puts the emphasis on the trying, the suggestion being that some effort will be made but without any firm conviction that ' it' will, in fact, be done.

[jno]

the OED's earliest citation for unsinkability (1860something) equates it with armour-plating, suggesting it means unable to be sunk. Armour-plating won't stop you sinking.

[Quizmonster]

In the 1926 edition of his Modern English Usage, H W Fowler wrote, "Try and is an idiom that should not be discountenanced, but used when it comes natural."
If he could consider the phrase "an idiom" and "natural" 86 years ago, I can see no great need for us to question it today. (I just love 'discountenanced'!)

[mike11111]

"Ding dong!"

"Go and see who's at the door."

Would anyone ever say, "Go TO see..." in this context?

[brionon]

If you understand then what's wrong ? Are you worried about Split infinitives too ?

[Quizmonkey]

Christ, and I thought I was a pedant.

[mike11111]

No, Quiz. Where AB is concerned you are a mere neophyte.

[Calibax]

^Surely that 'and' is superfluous Quizmonkey! :0)

[Mick-Talbot]

Try And Answer

Or

Try answering


?

What a crazy thread, do you lot lose sleep over this kind of stuff?

I am still pondering what an unsavable shot is.