Sprichst Du Deutsch?

[bainbrig]

An elderly Austrian friend used to say of Hitler that one of things she abhorred (apart from the obvious) was his 'appalling German' (i.e. his spoken German).

I know about four words of German, so didn't really understand what she meant. I have a notion that she is talking about class rather than misuse of the language - in this country, people could have said the same about the late Bob Crow, cockney-speaking leader of the rail unions.

So, any fluent German speakers out there - could you comment on HOW Hitler said what he said, rather than what he said? Was his spoken German 'appalling'? If so, can you explain how?

Thanks.

BB

[wolf63]

My vet is German and she said that the difference between Austrian German and German German is quite pronounced. She also added that it is more obvious when you are drunk.

This may be just her view but maybe it's true.

[woofgang]

Not a german speaker but I have heard this discussed before. Apparently he spoke German with a Bavarian accent which I understand is considered rural and not "Hochdeuch" (sp?)

[douglas9401]

Few things are more irritating about dictators than talking all common.

[ludwig]

// Not a german speaker but I have heard this discussed before. Apparently he spoke German with a Bavarian accent which I understand is considered rural and not "Hochdeuch" (sp?)//

I have some relatives in Switzerland. I don't speak the language, but I can tell their accent and dialect is quite different from the bits of German I learnt at school.

[scooping]

The fuehrer spoke perfect German. Everyone else did not.

[shaneystar2]

Germans and Austrians have dialects the same as we do .
If you listen to clips of him speaking normally and not ranting on he speaks with a Bavarian accent although it sounds old fashioned to way German is spoken now .Much like the clipped BBC accents sound old fashioned to us these days.
I can speak fluent German and my husband is German but even he finds it difficult to understand a Bavarian in full flow especially when they speak slang much as they wouldn't be able to to understand the slang spoken in the part of Germany my husband comes from.

[ludwig]

It's probably like if Churchill had been a brummie...

'Way will foit them on the baychees'

Not the same.

[zebo]

As he was Austrian he would be considered to speak Plattdeutsch, a low German. Like all countries pronunciation varies around Germany, my first German teach taught us Ich, as ick, we then had a different teacher who spoke a more southern German and he said Ich as itch. When we then had the first woman for the last year she went mad about our accents! Probably why when we lived in Germany I was told that I spoke it like a Dane!

[douglas9401]

Spoke like a Dane? Great.

[bainbrig]

Thanks for the ideas, many interesting thoughts.

I must say I like the idea of a Brummie (or Geordie!) Churchill. Would posh British people have accepted such a 'lower class' accent? Would they too, have talked about his 'appalling English'? Quite possibly.

So it seems to come down, one way or another, to perceived 'class', by any other name.

BB

[Prudie]

I did German to A level and was taught high pronunciation of ich was ick and lower southern was ish. Never came across itch I must confess.

[goodgoalie]

Did German at uni and always thought ich was pronounced neither 'ick' or 'itch' but as the way us Scots pronounce the end of 'loch' - maybe English learners can't do that :)

[bainbrig]

Maybe you never met any Scouse Germans Prudie (or their equivalent)...

[woofgang]

I was taught to speak French by a Brummie teacher with a very strong Brum accent when she spoke English. She was married to a Frenchman and they went back to France every summer. Later in life when I spoke (terrible) French on hols in France, I was more than one complimented on my Parisian accent.

[Prudie]

Probably not bainbrig and my teachers had probably only learnt from a text book themselves. I do have a German relative with a fluent German speaking English wife and they moved to Switzerland for work and neither of them could really understand Swiss German.

[bainbrig]

Yes, Prudie, you have to be SO fluent in a foreign language to appreciate all the nuances. I knew a bloke once who spoke excellent German, but on a trip to (I think) Munich thought he was in a foreign country.

I suppose a fluent English speaker finding themselves in deepest Glasgow might have a similar feeling.

[shaneystar2]

I coudn't speak a word of German when I married my husband 45 years ago and went to live and work in Germany. I learnt it on the hoof so to speak.I soon picked it up especially plattdeutsch from my in- laws his family and friends .My lovely in laws are dead now but anyone listening to my ma in law and myself chatting wouldn't have a clue what we were on about !

[Kidas]

Bavarian/Bayerisch is significantly different from the 'received pronounciation' of German - Hochdeutsch ('high german').

Bavarian is much slower and more open vowel sounds 'Yes' in Hochdeutsch is Ja (Pronounced as a sharp, 'Yar'). Spoken Baviarian (and even Austrian) is slower, a bit like 'Your'

Germans say Good Morning ('Guten Morgen'). Austrians and some Bavarians say Greet god ('Grüss Gott'). There are other dialect differences.

So it's maybe a bit like BBC English compared to a fairly broad Liverpool accent with some dialect words.

[Cloverjo]

OH and I both have very basic German. When we were in Berlin for a weekend we wanted to see the Reichstag. We got into a taxi, OH said 'Reichstag, bitte.'
taxi driver: What?
OH: Reichstag
Taxi driver: What? (Slightly annoyed after a couple more attempts)
OH showed him a picture of the building in a guide book. Taxi driver said 'Oh you mean the Rrrreichchstaggg.
OH: 'That's what I said'
taxi driver: no, I don't know what you said, but it wasn't that.

Bad German or bad accent?

[bainbrig]

Pig-headed taxi driver is my guess.