uk or usa?

[Uzoma]

I can't understand it. Where did all of our phrases go? We used to have Father Christmas, not Santa Claus. We never used to 'Trick or Treat'. Forms used to ask for your gender, not your sex. We used to go to the cinema - or the pictures even - but now we go to the movies. Furthermore, we used to say 'Hello' and nowadays we say 'Hi'. I'm just wondering when did all of these things change - are we becoming more American?

[Quizmonster]

Oscar Wilde wrote: �We have really everything in common with America nowadays except, of course, language�. Similarly, George Bernard Shaw apparently said: �England and America are two countries separated by the same language.�
There is no doubt that we have imported many Americanisms into British English usage. However, there are still many confusing differences. In motoring, to give just a few examples, Americans drive on the pavement, which is where we walk...they have trunks and we have boots...they have hoods and we have bonnets and so forth. They have a tendency to go for shorter, snappier expressions and we tend to adopt them...eg 'hi' (one syllable) instead of 'hello' (two syllables).
It works both ways, however. Our 4-letter word for the act of intercourse which begins with 's' and ends with 'g' is now used in the USA as is another rude 6-letter word for one who masturbates, beginning with 'w' and ending with 'r'.
The French are even more worried about their adoption of English words/phrases such as 'le weekend' and 'le sandwich'.
The plain fact is that the world is becoming more trans-national or multinational, so such linguistic borrowings are as inevitable now as they always have been.
Vive la difference, though!

[logman]

The day we swapped Hovis for Elvis, got bored of boredom, put on blue jeans and listened to rock'n roll.

[henneth]

I heard Tony Blair use the phrase "period" the other day, when of course he should have said "full stop". I've even started to hear Math instead of Maths. That does startle me a bit.

Remember, Halloween traditions like trick or treat or varients of such a thing were commonplace in England for centuries and words like 'Fall' for Autumn were also part of the English language but these were lost over time but continued in the colonies. Some trends and words you may think are Americanisms are in fact European.

However there is nothing more Northern English than saying Hiya for Hello so I'm not too sure Hi is such an American thing.

[Quizmonster]

Re Tony Blair's use of 'period' to mean 'full stop', the earliest recorded use of the word in that sense dates to the 1580s, at which point some of the Pilgrim Fathers might not even have been born!

[woofgang]

got to say though that I do mind this confusion between "gender" and "sex"

[Glossopswift]

<XMP> </XMP>

Don�t give up! He�s still Father Christmas in our house. We certainly don�t go to the movies, and we rarely go to the cinema, but we do go to the pictures. We watch films (not movies) on the telly (not the TV) so all is not lost. They haven�t passed a law yet and until they do I shall stubbornly continue to be stuck in my little English world.

[Quizmonster]

Cinema is of French/Greek origin, pictures is from Latin, film is from Teutonic and telly is a variant of the Greek prefix tele...not really all that English, any of them!

[jno]

well... gender has traditionally been used of words rather than people - in French, Latin or German, for instance, words are masculine or feminine or neuter (English, thank heavens, has long since dumped such pointless distinctions). Personally, I've always been asked for sex rather than gender.

I went to the pictures when young, being neither American nor British. I believe South Africans used to go the bioscope, but I have no idea if this is still common at all. They still use robots to refer to traffic lights, though.

QM period has long meant full stop of course, but I think its use in the Tony Blair sense - to end a statement and deter further question or comment - is recent and American.

Broadly, yes, the English language is becoming more American and less British. I think it goes back before rock'n'roll, though, to the early days of cinema - the talkies at least - since there's far more dialogue there than in the average rock song (which tends to contain about 3 syllables, all grunts). British English is still alive and evolving, particularly thanks to young people's street slang; nonetheless, we get at least as much slang from the USA these days, I believe, and they also lead the way in word creation generally.

Hey Glossopswift, got your fonts sorted at last??

[jno]

PS here is a great example (rather horrifying, actually) of Americanisation: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4512770.stm

[Grunty]

jno's reference to young people's language was interesting. I read a report recently that compared the thousands of words that we need to know, with the few that are required by young people - amazing, like, whatever etc. Some people were quite impressed by the piece, but I was, like, whatever.

[spudqueen]

We still have Father Chrismas and we go to the pictures but I can see the English language evolving, with or without Americas help. When I was young I used to get the bus to the railway station, now all the young people getting on the bus ask for the train station, and the word gay, which when I was young meant happy, now means homosexual but is evolving again as children use it as a means of taunting other children (you're gay - that's gay). As for trick or treat - I can't say I like it myself, but I suppose it is better than mischief night (which was November 4th round where I lived).

[Glossopswift]

<XMP> </XMP>

Jno � my fonting problem amuses me. Some AB topic sections come out as above, others in that horrible small Times Roman font. Everyday is different, isn�t it exciting. QM � woohoo, get you! ;)

[Quizmonster]

As you say, J, the use of 'period' to mean 'and there's an end of the matter' originated in the USA, but it has been widely used in British English for at least the last half century! (I did not see or hear the speech concerned.)
'Gay', Spudqueen, employed to mean homosexual specifically rather than any other variety of sexuality - such as "He's a gay dog!" which meant he was one for the ladies - is older than I am and I've seen all but seven decades!

I am always puzzled as to why anyone would consider words imported from classical Mediterranean or medi�val north-European languages acceptable whilst any such thing from modern north-America is anathema.
Language is a tool and people have, from time immemorial, borrowed tools or modified them to fit new purposes. We always will. Of course, if anyone personally dislikes the tool or finds no need for it, he/she is perfectly at liberty to ignore it. But these tools are not going to go away, so we all need to learn to live with them.

[mulberryrd]

As an American who loves to read British novels, I enjoy and look for the differences in our similar language. I personally think British English has more character and style than my native tongue. Please don't lose it!

The reason for my post is I need these words defined for me. What is a roundsman, what is a J-cloth, and what is a zimmer? I have an idea, but I could be way off and the story I'm reading won't make much sense.

Thank you.

[mulberryrd]

Quizmonster

Where I live in California if you drive on the pavement(sidewalk) you will get a traffic ticket (citation). That is where we walk. We drive our cars on the street or on the road. At least that is what we are supposed to do.

: )

[Quizmonster]

Mulberryd, I have certainly heard 'pavement' used to mean the surface of a road, whilst I have generally heard 'sidewalk' used to mean what we Brits call a 'pavement'.
Re your words, a roundsman is a delivery driver of one sort or another, such as a milkman who brings milk to the doorstep every morning...ie he has a 'round' of homes he regularly calls on.
A J-cloth is just a type of cloth used for cleaning generally, such as for washing up crockery etc after a meal.
A zimmer is a type of metal frame which old people lean on to help them to get about.
Perhaps you can tell me something...When did Americans stop calling their vehicles 'automobiles' and start calling them 'cars'?

[Quizmonster]

Mulberryd, if you click here the yourdictionary website sets out the American meanings of 'pavement' in much the way I have always believed them to be. Meaning 1 suggests it is the surface for vehicles to drive on, whilst Meaning 2 makes it clear that 'pavement' as a walking surface is, quote, "chiefly British". Maybe California is more British than the rest of the good ole US of A?

[jno]

Zimmer frames are usually capitalised and were presumably invented by someone called Zimmer; see this .

Picture of one near the bottom of this page.

J-cloth is a trademarked name (ie copyrighted).

[mulberryrd]

Quizmonster, I have asked several people, the oldest being 78 years old, and they all said that our vehicles have always been cars. They are called automobiles in commercials and advertisements, but in everyday speak we call them cars. I'm sure long ago they were called automobiles but I guess it was before my time. Sorry I wasn't more help. Maybe it's another one of those California things. : )

jno Thanks for the picture of the Zimmer frame. Here in the U.S. we call them walkers. Isn't that creative? : ) Thanks for the info.