As black as newgates knocker

[Thunderbird+]

I grew up hearing this reference which usually refered to a dark rain cloud heading our way. I sometimes still use the phrase today but get some odd looks from people (which is not that unusual) but I feel I need to explain.
So how did it originate ?
Another one I've heard ocaisionally is "It's dark over wills mum's" So who's Wills Mum ? Thanks

[chadad]

It refers to the Massive iron knocker on the doors of Newgate prison.

[burnhal]

my mother used to say "as black as hells door knocker"
and also when asked where something was she would say "at the back of Bill's mother's"- a variation on the one above- so I wouldnt mind knowing who Bill or Will was!

[carrot99]

When I was a kid growing up in S.E. London it was always pronounced Noogits knocker - still Newgate but always black as noogits.

[Quizmonster]

Burnhal, the "Bill's mother..." saying generally means rain is on the way. This saying seems to be more widespread around the country nowadays, but many - including Eric Partridge in his Dictionary of Catch Phrases - believe it started life in the East Midlands. The best explanation I've ever heard as to its origin is the one that suggests the �Bill', �Will' or �William' in the phrase refers to William (Will/Bill) Shakespeare. He was born in Stratford-on-Avon, to the west of the Midlands and - if the sky is dark and threatening over that area (ie over Bill's mother's) - it means rain is probably headed for the east of the Midlands region, because the prevailing winds are likely to push the wet weather in that direction.

[Loosehead]

Yeah my mum always said "Black as noogits" took years before I learnt what it meant.

[Thunderbird+]

Thanks all, Yes we always pronounced it 'Noogits'
I'll probably still get the funny looks from some people but at least now I can explain the origin of the phrase.

[lookoutkids]

I say this one quite a lot , normally when talking about dirt - my godchildren tend to get told to wash their hands/feet/face etc cos 'they're as blacks as noogits knocker'.
I know it comes from Newgate Prison (if anyone 's interested 'London a biography' is a fantastic read about the history or Newgate and much more).
I got the saying from my nan and being 31 and now living in the midlands no-one ever understands it.
Oh and it's always been pronounced 'noogits' in my family too' !