Homophobe

[number8]

Why are people who disagree with anything gay called homophobes? The dictionary definition is 'intense hatred or fear of homosexuals' I neither hate or fear them, but I do find it annoying that I'm referred as a homophobe simply because I don't agree that certain rights and privaleges should be preserved same heterosexual couples. So, Why Homophobe?

[number8]

No, Bernado, you are wrong - Homophobia is "intense hatred or fear of homosexuals or homosexuality" according to The Collins Concise. Both hatred and fear are extremely strong emotions and, quite frankly, I couldn't give a tinkers cuss how gay people live their lives, and it certainly doesn't stir up those kinds of emotions. If anything gay people are cheapening the word homophobic - it should be preserved for the nutters who go around beating them up, not for people who express a distaste. I have a different opinion to you as to what is considered "normal". That is not homophobic. It is merely a different opinion. No more and no less.

[number8]

No Bernado, you are wrong. Homophobia is "intense hatred or fear of homosexuals or homosexuality" according to The Collins Concise. Hatred and Fear are extremely strong emotions and, quite frankly, I couldn't give a tinkers cuss what gay people get up to, and they certainly don't instil those sorts of feelings. If anything I feel gay people are cheapening the strength and impact of the word homophobia by applying it to anybody who disagrees with them - it should be preservered for the absolute nutters who go around beating them up or spitting out their invective. Ours is a difference of opinion - we have different opinions on what is considered "normal". That, by any stretch of the imagination, is not homophobia. To attempt to argue that it is "intense fear or hatred" is nonsense.

[Ewood27]

Scubaboy, you really stirred something up, didn't you?
Bernardo, I'm sorry, but I still regard homosexuality as an aberration. Yes, it does exist and has existed (ancient Athens even had a regiment of "muggers"), but so do other aberrations; incest, murder, paedophilia and others - not that I equate homosexuality with paedophilia in any way. I cannot accept a homosexual partnership as being equal to a marriage. There should be a mechanism for homosexual partners to nominate each other to make decisions for them in illness, perhaps: surely a Power of Attorney would do that. I just cannot see homosexual partners as "one flesh" like married couples (of mixed sex).
Maybe we'll have to agree to disagree.

[incitatus]

I suspect that mild phobias are called intolerance. or bigotry. Ewood, scuba- it isnt unnatural. there are a number of species (chimps, pigs sheep, ducks and swans. even lions) that have shown gay behaviour, even when mating females are present. ducks also have rape, and penguins have prostitution. So given the number of species doing it it cannot be unnatural as how can a natural species perform in an unnatural way unless trained to do so? (which they werent). Next we have the moral issue: is homosexual behaviour moral? The basic test, i think, is does it do harm? the answer to this is a big no. Homosexual couples are just likje their hetero counterparts: they love, argue, support each other, infuriate each other, puzzle each other and edelight each other in the same way. ( i will say nothing about bachelor gayor hetero behaviour, but i think it is still a parallel).

[incitatus]

So there are only two cases left to answer, the aesthetic and the religious: aesthtetics are in the eyes of the beholder. We may not find homosexual behaviour pretty, but i venture to say that noone witnessing my flabby backside in flagrante with mrs inci would be getting a visual treat either. I used to find two men kissing in the street wierd, but no longer. becuase it occurred to me that when i was 6 i used to find men and women kissing in the street wierd. So i grew up again. I think mrs patrick campbells statement about frightening the horses should apply to all sexual behaviour or none. Religion, then. ah. this gives us a problem. if you have a religious belief should you be allowed to enforce it on others? The answer to this is a definite no in all the abrahamic religions, and the notion of it in buddhist or hindu religions is ludicrous. The church fathers (as we seem to be largely christian here) all agreed that people sould be led to god by patient example. Not by prohibition or force. Aquinas said that one may use patient argument with the ungodly. but even St Paul would not interfere with heathen worship or acts, except to say that christians should limit their contact. More recently both the catholic and anglican churches have defined that although practicing homosexuality is deemed to be sinful ( rightly or wrongly) the homosexual him or her self IS loved by god.

[incitatus]

Believing in the divine ordination of marriage puts you in a real minority, ewood. as does being a practicing christia, in a basically agnostic country. I am a married atheist, and frankly the notion that god had anything to do with it is faintly ridiculous. As is the idea of god. but I dont have a problem with people worshipping him provided they do no harm to others and dont interfere with my beliefs. (Dont get me started on sunday trading). To impose ones own beliefs on others is bigotry, or at best intolerance, and is directly contrary to the teachings of christ.

[number8]

No Bernado, you are wrong - the Collins Concise describes homophobia as "intense hatred or fear of homosexuals or homosexuality". hate and fear are two incredibly strong emotions and, quite frankly, I couldn't give a tinkers cuss how gay people choose to live their lives, and I certainly don't have those emotions about it. If anything, gay people are cheapening the impact and meaning of the word homophobe by using it just because somebody happens to have a contrary view to them - you should be saving it for the lunatics who go around beating gay people up or spitting out their invective. What you and I have is a difference of opinion. Nothing more and nothing less. You choose to live your life a certain way - fair enough. I happen to think that your way of life is odd - that is not homophobic, and to describe it as such smacks of ignorance.

[number8]

I'm sorry about my three posts in a similar vein - when I was posting them it initially looked as though they weren't showing. Sorry.

[xyzzy@bok]

does it make it worse for you or not if the homosexuals are Jewish?

[number8]

?????

[bernardo]

Scubaboy - I am puzzled by your reference to my "way of life" being "odd" at the end of your latest message. What do you mean by my "way of life"? The only way in which my homosexuality has any impact on my "way of life" is that I exist, I fancy men instead of women, and I have pin-ups of pictures of men on my bedroom wall instead of pictures of women. The fact that I am gay means that it would be "odd" for me to have pictures of women on my bedroom wall, so having puictures of men is surely the logical thing to do, and therefore not "odd".

[number8]

I said I find it odd. But equally I find vegetarianism odd, I find people who believe in creationism odd. I have absolutely no doubt people would find my way of life odd - I spend most of the Summer indulging my passion for scuba diving. But that's the point - it's just different peoples perception of other peoples lives. And on this point, I accept I have offended you and I whole heartedly apologise - I accept my comments were contentious, but I genuinely, honestly didn't mean to cause offence.

[Jaybee]

I'm curious bernardo - can you explain why so many people seem to believe that if someone's opinion differs from yours (as a gay person), they must have a morbid terror of you? It puzzles me - and my gay neighbour!

[bernardo]

Scubaboy - but you still haven't said what the "it" is which you find "odd". If you say that you find my "way of life" odd, then what do you mean by my "way of life"? i.e. which bits of it?

[sft42]

Bernardo you're as odd as two left feet...you fancy Tim Henman for gawd's sake....couldn't you at least fancy someone like Johnny Depp? Now I would even think about a bit of guy on guy action with him (tee hee).....Aren't you all proving your homophobia by banging on about this so much? An acid test would be would you actually discriminate in any way against a gay person no matter how small.....if yes your homophobic...sorted.

[Ewood27]

I agree with scubaboy's original contention that there should be a word to express a milder feeling than "intense hatred or fear". Someone suggested "intolerance" or "bigotry", but I don't accept that those are right in my own case. I am repelled by any thought of engaging in homosexuality myself, as I am repelled by the idea of engaging in necrophilia. If others want to do it (the homosexuality, not the necrophilia), please let them be discreet and not shove it in my face.
As for being in a minority for my belief in God, I am of a generation that was brought up to believe. We are also a bit too close to finding out to take chances, so we cover all possibilities! This is still a religious country, only the religion now is Soccer, while the House of God stands empty.

[incitatus]

in a church school with churchgoing family i too was brought up to beleive. i afterwards decided it was all tosh. And i dont believe in soccer either. in fact the only things i choose to hold as tenets of faith, despite the evidence to the contrary, are that tea is the finest invention of the last 4000 years and my wife was a virgin when i met her. Perhaps bigotry is little strong for what you describe, but intolerance is closer. why should two humans in a stable relationship be denied the legal rights that go with a civil partnership. after all we are talking about the rights that went with common law until it was repealed. or the rights that are still extended to religious communities. Theists often assert that the "godlessness" we see today is merely people worshipping in the wrong place. We atheists prefer to believe that mankind is finally growing up. perhaps both sets are deluded.

[incitatus]

ps I dont suppose it would help to know that necrophiliac ducks and toads have been observed? they have tended to be accidental, though.

[number8]

Barnado - the "it" that I find odd (and I'm sure everybody on this thread knows exactly what the "it" I am referring to is - so apologies for the graphicness (is that a word?) of the answer) is.........inserting your penis into another mans anus and/or vice versa.

[bernardo]

Scubaboy - in other words, the "it" in my "way of life" which you consider to be "odd" is something which I have never done, and which I have never had any desire to do. In other words, something which is not part of my "way of life" in any way.

The fact that you have irrationally assumed that "it" is something which is part of my "way of life" is probably more demonstrative of "homophobia" than any other comment in this whole conversation. If "Homophobia" is defined as "irrational fear and/or hatred of" gay people, then "irrational" is a very suitable word to describe your entirely false and irrational assumption about my "way of life".
BR>And by the way, you seem to be assuming that "everybody on this thread" has made the same irrational assumption as you have.