gotten it all wrong?

[swedeheart]

Back in the sixties when I started learning English as a second language we were taught to use the word 'gotten' for instance in a sentence like "Has it gotten any better?" It wasn't really until I started visiting this site some years ago that I noticed Brits don't seem to use 'gotten' today. Have you dropped it and if so when, or was our teacher influenced by American English?

[Bapla]

its american-english it hasnt been used in Brittan for at least three hundred years

[Panic Button]

I don't think us English have ever used 'gotten'.

It's an American thing.

[Jumbuck]

It's never been used in Britain except for the illiterates that are around today, influenced by US TV and knowing no better.

[LoftyLottie]

Did we ever use it? I thought it was just an Americanism and probably classed as slang. I have been around a long time and it has never been used in this country as far as I am concerned, except perhaps by those who want to sound American.

[gen2]

Apart from a few phrases like
"Ill-gotten gains"
'gotten' is very rarely used in the UK these days. Can't speak for the USA so whether your teacher was a bit out-of-date, or American influenced, I cannot say.

[jackthehat]

^ 'Gotten' is used in at least one of Jane Austen's books (can't quite think which one for certain).
It appears that UK English has dropped it where US American has kept it...........

[LoftyLottie]

I'd forgotten about 'ill-gotten' gains! So obviously is olde english!!

http://www.miketodd.net/encyc/gotten.htm

[swedeheart]

Jeez, never had so many replies in such a short time...! Thanks everyone!

[Jumbuck]

I stand corrected in thinking that it was never used over here... but you can bet that those that use it these days aren't doing so because it was in Shakespeare, Bacon or Pope, or any others of which they won't have heard.

[swedeheart]

That was *said in American voice* a GREAT article, Lottie ;-) "[...] some British English speakers go apoplectic when gotten is used" - oh dear. I would have attached some BP pills to this question, had I known ;-) Genuine thanks, all, your replies have enlightened this foreigner.

[fredpuli47]

Swedeheart, you'll find other examples of Americans using words, and forms of verbs, which are obsolete in British English.Some are thought by us to be words invented by Americans but are no more than words which settlers took with them from England long ago and which we no longer use;' faucet' for tap is one such. Verb forms include 'gotten' and 'dove' (for ' dived'). They also like 'atop' for 'on' (as 'on top of'). which is one which seems our loss, and redux (meaning revisited, revived , repeated after a long absence, as with a play performed for the first time after years of not being performed) and others.

They're really an old-fashioned people !

[swedeheart]

fredpuli, thanks - I've always wondered what 'redux' means! Never gotten arou- ...erm, sorry: Never got round to looking it up.

We (in Sweden) get lots of films and television series both English and American and I've never been able to settle for one of the languages when speaking myself. I've noticed that I even mix accents deliberately within the same sentence, as if to say "I AM a foreigner you know, please treat me as such and speak slowly when addressing me".

But even if I didn't want to do that on purpose, sometimes it would still be very difficult to remember which language is which, especially with words that not only look the same but are also semantically close to each other in both languages, like 'purse'. Not to mention 'pants'. I remember saying on a thread that I'd better go and put some pants on before cleaning the windows. Yeah it was strongly recommended that I did...! (I meant trousers.)

[Quizmonster]

The Oxford English Dictionary says of 'got'..."Shortened past participle of get; see gotten," so 'gotten' was the original format. It predates 'got' by about three centuries. It is, as already said above, largely an Americanism nowadays; however, when I was a lad in the North-East of Scotland quite a few decades ago - certainly not thirty of them! - 'gotten' was perfectly common in Doric, the dialect of that part of Britain.

For example, "Ah've gotten 'e Beano. Hiv ee gotten ane?" (I've got the Beano. Have you got one?)

Perhaps someone currently living in or around Aberdeen can confirm whether this is still normal. Certainly our teachers would never have approved, but everybody did it regardless. The point is, 'gotten' was certainly in use here in Britain within living memory and may well still be.

[Quizmonster]

It suddenly occurs to me, Swedeheart, that you may be unfamiliar with the Beano. It's a well-known British kids' comic.

[LoftyLottie]

Sometimes the AB can be very informative. A good medium for education! I enjoyed this thread. Will have to venture into the 'highbrow' sections much more often - a New Year's resolution!!!

[jno]

yes, it used to be gotten on both sides of the Atlantic; but Brits have shortened it. They haven't shortened 'forgotten', though.

[Quizmonster]

Rabbie Burns did, J! "Should auld acquaintance be forgot..."
(Again with us Jocks, eh?) Given that HE went with the then newfangled 'got' why didn't the rest of us?

[scotman]

Swedeheart

Further from QM's reply. Chambers 10th gives gotten as only being Scottish and American. I think that it is also only in parts of Scotland. I can't remember hearing anyone using it and I don't myself.

[swedeheart]

S'all good, QM - I've image googled 'Beano' :) Thanks everyone who contributed, I've learnt a lot on this thread. I'll leave scotman and da monster to reminisce ;-) while I trudge through the snow here in Stockholm - got some shopping to do. Really appreciate your replies.

[jno]

good point, Quizmonster. Personally, I refused to follow suit because I didn't want anyone thinking I was a Scottish poet; they'd only ask me to play the bagpipes at parties.