Haggle / Barter

[Captain Spod]

WHY CAN'T PEOPLE REALISE (upper case because I'm cross) THAT THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT WORDS MEANING TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. THEY WOULDN'T SAIL IN A CHEESE OR FLY A WINDOW, THAT WOULD BE NONSENSE, SO WHY DO THEY 'BARTER' IN MIDDLE EASTERN MARKETS? THIS EVEN APPLIES TO SO-CALLED EXPERTS ON TV ANTIQUES SHOWS. Thank you, I feel a little better now.

[Whickerman]

I'm with you on this. And before some sage person comes on to waffle about the English language evolving, I'm stating here and now that the use of Barter instead of Haggle is wrong and annoying!

[Quizmonster]

Well, I don't know whether I am a "sage person", but I'm certainly not "waffling" when I point out that Roget's Thesaurus, Bradford's Crossword Solver's Dictionary, Chambers Thesaurus and Chambers Crossword Dictionary ALL offer haggle and barter as synonyms.

Yes, I know the words were very different in the past, but there's not a lot of point in being "cross", skipper, when the language clearly HAS "evolved" to bring this about.

[Arksided]

nothing for a pair in this game ;-)

[jno]

your books are all far too trendy, Quizmonster - I'm sure if you look up your handy copy of A Table Alphabeticall it won't be having any of this nonsense!

[sandyRoe]

But who would use them as though they meant the same thing?

[Quizmonster]

Roget's Thesaurus...trendy?!! It was first published in 1852 and has been seen as authoritataive more or less ever since. Granted, my copy is the 2004 edition, but what the hey, J!

[jno]

just my little joke, QM! I was thinking if you went back to 1604 you could probably find a reference book that thought they were not synonymous...

[society]

Now, why would you all be haggling over 'this'? :-)

[Quizmonster]

Just about every crossword-solver in Britain, Sandy!

[Quizmonster]

I'm not haggling, I'm bartering, mate!

[THECORBYLOON]

Maybe some English folk can't tell the difference between talk and barter...

[sandyRoe]

I'd say to 'barter' is to swap. To 'haggle' is to try and find a price acceptable to you and who's selling.

[society]

I agree with you, Sandy.

[sandyRoe]

But it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that you might haggle as you tried to arrange the barter...

[fredpuli47]

' Barter' is from Old French 'barater' meaning (guess what?) 'to haggle' ,which dates from the C12 . The word 'barter' is true to its origins ! The words 'barter' and 'haggle' are synonyms.

What distinction in meaning do you make, Captain? That 'barter' means 'to traffic by exchanging one commodity for another, in opposition to purchasing with money'. Well, Dr Johnson gave only that definition in his Dictionary. He defines 'haggle' as 'to be tedious in bargaining; to be long in coming to the price' How would you define 'haggle' ? Not as Dr Johnson did but simply as, say, ' to argue in bargaining', without reference to time ? Well, if not, that goes to show how language evolves, changes over time ( in the case of 'haggle' since 1775). Dr Johnson thought of slowness, we don't.

[carmalee]

there's no need to shout your question Captain Spod - you're not haggling or bartering now.

[Whickerman]

Nope. I'm not having it. Not in my house.

[heathfield]

I don't find TV presenters being too confused over 'haggle' and 'barter'. But they seem incapable of differentiating between 'bargain' and 'barter'. ''See if you can barter with the stallholder and get for it a lower price'' - heard constantly. Grrr!

Barter = Exchange goods and/or services for other goods and/or services.

Bargain = Discussion between buyer and seller to establish a price acceptable to both.

Tim Wanacott is one of the few TV presenters who admits to being very particular over the correct use of these two words.

[razza]

Doesnt take much to make you cross captain spod

[mo183]

Why, 'ello Farmer Giles. I'll fix that rickety gate if yer feeds the cock before 'e crows an' wakes us all up.

Tell thi' what, Jim, I'm fed up with the blithering thing mysen. I'll gi' thee a quid ta wring its neck.

£2.50 Giles.

Thar'on, Jim.

There you go - not rocket science ... Jim bartered and got no where, till he haggled.