He's Already Talking About A 3Rd Term.
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Group/charity/organisation: it or they?
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Hi! Not sure WHICH category of the AnswerBank this fits into best, but am hoping that at least the Word Origins readership will include some avid grammarians...
Nouns such as "The group" "The Charity" "organisation" etc : it or they? In other words, if I'm referring to a group, do I then refer back to "it" or to "them"? I *think* it's the singular (THE group) rather than the plural (which would surely refer to the multiple components WITHIN the group) but can someone either confirm or correct that?
Thank you!!!
Nouns such as "The group" "The Charity" "organisation" etc : it or they? In other words, if I'm referring to a group, do I then refer back to "it" or to "them"? I *think* it's the singular (THE group) rather than the plural (which would surely refer to the multiple components WITHIN the group) but can someone either confirm or correct that?
Thank you!!!
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I think you're right, but it can probably be either way. It depends whether you're thinking of the organisation as a single monolithic entity or as a collection of individuals. So for instance if you talk about Arsenal - it's singular if you talk about the club but plural if you mean the team. Arsenal is a famous club/Arsenal are playing like wallies.
Weekly in The Times, a �Feedback' column appears with responses to complaints raised by readers. On March 10th 2007, a reader had written (abbreviated),,,
"I am writing to highlight the increasing incorrect use of collective nouns with plural verbs...'the team are doing this' or �England are doing that'..."
The editor responded...
"Actually it isn't incorrect. To quote Gowers: �In using collective words or nouns of multitude (department, government, committee and the like...there is no rule; either a singular or a plural verb may be used.'"
The Gowers referred to was Sir Ernest Gowers, the author of The Complete Plain Words (TCPW) first published in 1954. His words are echoed by those of the editor of Fowler's Modern English Usage (FMEU), who expresses the selfsame thought as, "In British English, collective nouns may be correctly followed by either a singular or a plural verb."
(Note the use of the word �may' by both...ie you need to consider the particular circumstances and it will depend on whether you are concentrating on the word's singularity or plurality aspect, as J suggests above.)
These two publications have long been regarded as �bibles' of current English usage. Despite that, every time the question we are discussing here is asked someone invariably appears and says exactly what the The Times letter-writer said...ie that a plural verb is wrong!
Whether to use singular or plural is often decided if a later pronoun is involved. We would never say, "The committee leaves its hats in the hall", though that's what the singular-verb brigade must logically demand.
The choice is yours...simple as that...but you can guarantee someone will appear here to deny that! Listen to the real experts.
"I am writing to highlight the increasing incorrect use of collective nouns with plural verbs...'the team are doing this' or �England are doing that'..."
The editor responded...
"Actually it isn't incorrect. To quote Gowers: �In using collective words or nouns of multitude (department, government, committee and the like...there is no rule; either a singular or a plural verb may be used.'"
The Gowers referred to was Sir Ernest Gowers, the author of The Complete Plain Words (TCPW) first published in 1954. His words are echoed by those of the editor of Fowler's Modern English Usage (FMEU), who expresses the selfsame thought as, "In British English, collective nouns may be correctly followed by either a singular or a plural verb."
(Note the use of the word �may' by both...ie you need to consider the particular circumstances and it will depend on whether you are concentrating on the word's singularity or plurality aspect, as J suggests above.)
These two publications have long been regarded as �bibles' of current English usage. Despite that, every time the question we are discussing here is asked someone invariably appears and says exactly what the The Times letter-writer said...ie that a plural verb is wrong!
Whether to use singular or plural is often decided if a later pronoun is involved. We would never say, "The committee leaves its hats in the hall", though that's what the singular-verb brigade must logically demand.
The choice is yours...simple as that...but you can guarantee someone will appear here to deny that! Listen to the real experts.
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