nationality nicknames

[4winds]

I've just learned that a 'SWEATY / JOCK" is a Scottish person; I've heard a Welsh persons referred to as "TAFFY; Irish as "PADDY/ MICK". What is the equivalent term for an English person ?
And do these terms cause offence to the respective ethnic groups? ( I'm thinking of Prince Harry's recent remark.)
Thank you for any explanations.

[fredpuli47]

Sassenach is the Scots' insulting name for the Englishman. I think it means " know nothing" in Gaelic (but I know nothing).

The English don't take offence at it .

[mallam]

It's the English spelling for the Scottish and Irish Gaelic versions of their words for Saxon.

[fredpuli47]

Ah, that makes sense, mallam. Never thought of a connection before, but the Welsh for Englishman is Sais (pronounced Ss -eiss ) of which the plural is Saeson.In itself, Sais is not abusive, though English -speaking Welsh people do sometimes use it to mean "He is English (with all that entails"i.e. He doesn't think / act like us, and is typically English.

Saeson, sassenach, Saxon. Obvious,really!

[mallam]

I'm immensely grateful to anyone who thinks I make sense. fred. I was beginning to think I was the kiss of death to every thread I posted on. Are you pretty much a bilingual Welsh speaker, then? You seem to be aware of connotations as well as denotations. You have an admirable feeling for ad-hoc phonetic representation, too. I take your ss's to mean "Don't think s behaves like f"!

[fredpuli47]

Not Welsh,mallam, but was long married to a Welsh speaker. ( who, incidentally , much preferred to speak English and live in England ) Had to pick up the nuances, the denotations of the Welsh in speech and deed .(It's called 'survival' LOL )

[terambulan]

I prefer Pompy as opposed to English, Brit or Scot (am all of those) but Portsmouth is my base.

[Ice.Maiden]

I've heard of Derbyshire folk being referred to as "sheep s******s" - usually by the football element!

[Buenchico]

The French refer to Brits in general, and the English in particular, as 'roast beef'. That's as offensive, or not (depending upon your view), as us calling them 'frogs'.

Chris

[Buenchico]

Incidentally, Harry's remark was offensive simply because the term he used is associated with an intent to cause offence. It's a bit like calling someone a 'b@stard'. When that happens, it's unlikely that either the person making the remark, or the person receiving it, looks down in any way on people who're born out of wedlock. The original meaning of the word is irrelevant, but both parties still regard it as conveying offence.

Chris

[JK04]

Im Irish, and English people are called the Sasanaigh, which is just from na Sasanaigh, meaning english but refering to people.

[londonlove]

In Monaco, we were laughed at by some grotty looking school kids as 'des pommes de terres' (spuds), and I was not sure if it was to mock rhyming slang for Angleterre (England). It may have been but I'm not sure if those kids were that inventive.
I was a bit taken aback cos none of us was overweight or spuddy...obviously everyone in the region can tell English people by the manner of dress but it still seemed a bit random and vaguely insulting.
We weren't really offended as they were just kids mucking around, but it hardly seemed worth going to Monaco for the so-called James Bond experience...

[mallam]

Yes, chico, calling us les rosbifs is supposed to be offensive, but I can't see it. I doubt if it is usually deliberately insulting, You may have been more immersed in la francophonie than I have been for some time and know otherwise, but if so I guess it's another PC phenomenon, and one thing that must somewhat detract from the logic of this particular bit of PC is that it is a melancholy statistical fact that the most popular meal in the vaunted home of haute cuisine is franglais: 'le steak frites'. Is not steak just as English as roast beef? On the other hand there has never been any doubt in my mind that calling them frogs is deliberately offensive.

You say Harry's remark was offensive simply because the term he used is associated with an intent to cause offence. I think you're right, but 'associated with' is key, and as for both parties regarding it as conveying offence, I'm afraid in this case probably neither party was party to the offence and the taking offence - the one too crass and the other too polite!

[mallam]

Luv, you make it look as if they were calling you 'apples of various territories of origin', but I guess you're right about their meaning spuds, i.e. 'des pommes de terre'! Apparently they blame even the above-mentioned frites on us. Walter Raleigh and all that, don't you know.

This site is taking an eternity to register every letter I type. WHY at this time in the morning. It should be the insomniac, not me.

[londonlove]

thanks mallam
don't worry, i received a french grammatical dictionary for christmas so i won't offend your sensitivities by making such elementary errors again. Thanks for pointing it out.

[fredpuli47]

"Les rosbifs" is not offensive nowadays. In French newspapers and on French TV it is the usual , and friendly , name for the English teams, alternative to using 'les Anglais'. At worst, it was no more offensive than American calling the British 'limeys'


.

[heathfield]

Whilst in the British Army in Aden, shopkeepers would often call out to me and others ''Hey, John, Jock, Taff, Mic!'' to get our attention.

[mallam]

Thanx, h field. I thought perhaps you had answered 4w's original q. I had thought there must be something comparable to Jock, Taff, Mick/Paddy, but none of us could offer an answer. Yours looks like a concrete example, along the lines of John Bull (unfortunately the same name as Jock), but I could only find it in the always remarkably comprehensive Wiktionary, which says:
A name often used as a generic reference to a male of European, North-American, or Australian origin, while travelling in East Asia.

Perhaps "East Asia "is too restrictive, but obviously "Englishman" is.

[mallam]

Or since it was the British Army in Aden, perhaps the locals picked up the use in http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/:
General term of address for a male. [London use]

[newpotato]

Sweaty for jock is cockney rhyming slang as in sweaty sock = Jock

[shivvy]

Interesting question. I am Northern Irish and I would not be happy if someone called me a 'mick' or 'paddy'. The reason that I would find it offensive is because both words are usually used/associated with other derogatory terms eg thick paddy, stupid mick.
Interestingly enough however when I was living in england with a few other irish people there was an english guy who used to hang out with all the irish folks and he used to get called a 'plastic paddy' which I found to be quite complimentary ie he was english but preferred the irish 'craic'/lifestyle/company etc to his english friends!

In Northern Ireland I think the term most applied to english people would be 'Brit'. This has connections to the army personnel who would have been posted in Northern Ireland in the past, and therefore would have been quite derogatory.