Listener 4147 OZ and WR by Theod

[starwalker]

Having seen that this has a Playcode code, I was intending to put it to one side. Having failed at that, I now find myself within an ace of finishing. Much easier than I expected, but I realise that for some that this will be a bete noir.
Thanks Theod.

[perseverer]

Just in case you feel any Playfair from now on will be easy meat, you might like to have a try at No.3993 - Argentum, by Radix, from almost exactly 3 years ago.

[aldanna]

Got there! Yes, a most weird word. It really helps when you read all the instructions properly.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, I believe a few people who are still struggling have not noticed that bit of the preamble that says 'with I doing duty for I and J'. To playfair habitués, that is perhaps self-evident as the code square has 25 letters and the alphabet 26, but it is something relative newcomers need to understand.

[borealis]

....and a prize for the first of us to bring the theme word into a conversation without contrivance. Good fun - I enjoyed 29d!

[Arcticpenguin]

Perseverer - I couldn't do 3993 then and I can't do it now - even with the fancy software gizmos.

[tenflags]

Yes thanks Perseverer .. but I think I will give 3993 a miss too .. having risked a frying pan round the head with the time spent finishing every last wordplay and letter on this and previous effort on 4145.

[contendo]

Couldn't get onto the Times Crossword Club website on Friday. It said my "session" had expired, which I presume means my subscription. Had to actually resort to buying the paper with all the extra bumf for the binmen. Then my computer crashed, so when I'd completed the grid I got no assistance from this thread for the Playfair and due to a basic error in my logic thought it was impossible. Great relief when I sorted out my computer problem and got to the tip about Quinapalus. What a godsend.
My only doubt is, are there not 2 words requiring the "final modification"?

[tenflags]

Hi Contendo, look up the theme word and you will answer that.

[contendo]

I have, but I still think two words qualify.

[tenflags]

I figure if you read the definition you will be fine Contendo-Tenflags.

[Ruthrobin]

Contendo, there was a problem with the Times Crossword Club website last week. Go to The Crossword Centre (Derek Harrison's) message board and scroll down a few topics to find the discussion of the problems others had and how they were resolved before you renew your subscription.
http://boards2go.com/...d.cgi?&user=dharrison

[contendo]

Tenflags - gosh, that penny took a long time to drop. Thanks. However there were other candidates for the final modification.
RR - Thanks for that link. If anyone still has the same problem that I still have, not being able to access individual Listeners going via their favourites, try typing www.crosswordclub.co.uk into the address bar. Doing that allows me in.

[ichkeria]

I'm absolutely astounded that people should throw such a wobbly at the prospect of decoding Playfair. I would have thought that compared with the challenge of unravelling the clues recovering the codeword would be comparatively straightforward. At least, it's a joy for me and this one in particular was not particularly difficult. With scrabble tiles and a bit of logical thought. Using an electronic aid seems such a shame.

[AndrewG-S]

I think I would say each to his own on method of solving. But there was certainly a lot of satisfaction resolving the Playfair the old-fashioned way, which I would not have got through the electronic version. On the next Playfair I will certainly try again to resolve it without resorting to the internet and then no doubt give up after an hour or so.

[jabone]

This is the first Playfair that I have done by 'cheating' and I am regretting it as am missing the satisfaction gained by working it out from scratch. Will try harder next time!

[tilbee]

I am with you Jabone. As already mentioned by TB69 here, this was not a difficult one to decipher and I already had most of this together before I went for the easy solution. The encoded clues themselves were very straightforward - only 26d took more than a cursory read.

Clearly different folk have varying views of what is acceptable, but it is up to each to do whatever is appropriate for them. Still think searching precise definitions on a soft copy of BRB is a step to far.

[Cruncher]

An enjoyable puzzle, the more so for being abroad and being able to solve, or at least hazard a guest at all the answers without access to the BRB - one very strange down answer though but it vaguely rings a bell. And thought the Playfair was not too tricky especially as it was possible to guess some additional pairs from the definition. I always find it easier to start with the end of the alphabet. Unless the codeword is really weird I assume that the usual culprits will make up the final row.

[ichkeria]

Each to their own indeed, but I wonder what is the point of doing these puzzles if not to stretch the mind. With a few computer programs one could sit and fill in the Listener puzzle many weeks fairly quickly, but what's the point? I could see that if one had wrestled for days and was desperate for a solution to send off then one might "cheat" but the closing date for entries is, as I write this, over a week away

[midazolam]

I suppose it depends what you find fascinating with thematic puzzles. My attraction is getting the theme. As mentioned I solved this puzzle without the BRB, normally using the CDROM, and I found it no more enjoyable this way. The theme is what gives me the buzz and this puzzle is a prime example why I am hooked (especially when I compare it to last weeks rather pointless trawl). It is also that I do not have the time to spend all week on these puzzles.

Times change. Take numericals as an example, I very much doubt anyone would solve a square root of a number the long winded way when there is a calculator to do it for you at a push of a button. The internet and electronic devices are just an expansion of the world we now live in.

Luckily no gadget will take away the satisfaction of getting the theme of these crosswords and so I will continue to use them.

[Ruthrobin]

And, of course, Ichkeria, you sitting comfortably in the Home Counties (?) might have another week but for those of us say in the USA, Japan or Australia, if it isn't mailed already, it won't get there - the overseas closing date is past. (That is probably the reason for the two week deadline - not to give you longer!)

How I wish I could be confident of 'sitting with a few computer programmes and filling the Listener puzzle many weeks'. Indeed, I endorse what Midazolam says - it is getting the theme that gives the 'buzz' and, as I said right at the start of this intriguing sharing of views about the use of aids, one exciting aspect of the Listener crosswords is that they open up new areas of knowledge almost every week (the theme word this week!)