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Many thanks Lie-in king and ubasses, a few months ago I was really struggling to get to grips with cryptics, but with the help you have given me over the time I have been on this site, I am getting better, and the answers ( not all of them) are jumping out at me. Many thanks to you all, you go through life and all you see is people being inhumane to others, with the attitude of self self self, but you guys show that their are decent people who want to help others and restore my faith in people. Many many thanks