Listener 4179: O Gather Twelve by Augeas

[Zabadak]

Back to the relatively easy ones then, though I think the final step's a bit of a swine if the subject's not all that familiar. One of those with a reasonably straightforward grid fill (with one slightly ambiguous answer that could throw you off the whole track) and then at least the potential for staring into space for a while waiting the proverbial descent of the small change.
Best wishes to all, thanks to Augeas for working it all out, and the best of British to our noble scorer when he comes to check the rather random looking results.

[starwalker]

Yes Zabadak, I've just got to the stage of the full grid with clashes resolved, and to be honest, I'm thinking "What is the point ?"
Either this is going to be a blinding finish or a major let-down, and from your comment. I'm fearing the worst.

[Zabadak]

It's neat enough, and the whole thing fits together well enough, and it got me interested enough in the theme to see what it was all about. Exciting and blinding? Probably not. Gave me time to knock off TLS 916 though.

[Ruthrobin]

Zabadak, that was astonishingly fast. We are in the same position as Starwalker and wondering what the point is.

[AHearer]

Quite fun, but I still found the end-game a bit of a let-down. I hadn't spotted before that the group was distributed in such a way as to allow the half-way scheme to work, but no doubt old Listener hands will tell me that this has been used before. Ah well, no excuse now for not tackling that pile of scripts to be marked.

[Zabadak]

Thank you kindly RR. I've complained in the past about easier grid fills with a jerky gear change to the denouement, and I could easily have got stuck on this one. It works, though.

[Alekhine]

All done ... and a little dissatisfying.

However, having only had about an hour this week on 4178, I'll spend some time on that over the weekend. Do I sense that it was a bit tricky? Maybe I picked the right week to be busy.

[TheBear69]

I concur with the generally negative reaction to this one.

I think the wordplay to 8d is flawed in that two articles are missing without which the corresponding part of the answer is not justified.

[cluelessJoe]

Oh dear, I think this is going to be a chore. Only just begun with about ten clues solved - and already no final staring into space to look forward to. I can see what's happening, and have already deduced the theme and completed the box ... so nothing left apart from a pdm-free haul through the rest of the clues until the grid's full.

[Stavrolex]

Was that the easiest Listener ever? My first ever Friday nighter, so thanks for that Augeas. I think there was considerable skill in devising a grid which optimised the clashes so to speak. I just thought it was all a bit obvious, and the clues a bit to straightforward for my liking. Most of the instruction was also redundant really. Nevertheless, good fun, and I nice to have a theme I was familiar with for once...

[AndrewG-S]

Method of entry was pretty easy to spot. I take my hat off to Augeas at the clueing challenge that left. Final step - a bit of a leap particularly if like me you know nothing about the subject. Overall though it was fun entertainment for Friday night and leaves Saturday clear!

[Charpy]

Grid filled by 7 p.m. on Friday. Haven't yet seen the denouement. Judging by the remarks in this thread it's obscure - the sort of crossword I really dislike. Ah well - a cup of tea and slog on. If not finished by tonight, something stronger might be called for.

[silversolver]

Agree with all of the above, and I am in the same position as Charpy. A pretty quick grid fill (whilst admiring a very impressive feat of construction) and now at the head-scratching stage trying to deduce the theme...

[upsetter]

Am I the only person who thinks that it wouldn't make any difference how the clashes were resolved?
I cannot see how the theme emerges from the actual letters entered.

[aldanna]

Full grid without too much trouble, no idea about the theme - however, I don't seem to be alone in this.

[Charpy]

After much Internet research of a certain subject, I've found a 4-word phrase which might just fit the bill in a loose sort of way. Before I commit to the little red box down the road, please may I ask two questions of those who have finished this puzzle:

Having identified your 4 words as the theme, are you absolutely sure they're the right ones - no room for doubt whatsoever?

If the subject matter in hand was not your field, so you did not know if there might be a better theme, would your choice still seem compelling?

[dead-eye]

A little bit disappointing. I had the theme after four clashes, so no PDM to finish. Centenary by Augeas in the Magpie (yes, I too have succumbed to gentle cajolery)recently was far more fun & certainly had the entertainment factor which unfortunately this did not.

[Walterloo]

Hmm. . . Um . . . Er . . . Yes. That's as much as I can say about this one. Grid filled. Theme unidentified. Obviously a subject I'm unfamiliar with. I can't summon much enthusiasm for it at the moment so I'm not going to work too hard on the final step. Well done to those who have finished, particularly zabadak and his unnervingly speedy brain.

[Zabadak]

Charpy: yes, the four word phrase is well attested, and while in theory one of the words could be almost anything, in practice there's only one which really works and identifies the theme. It can be found in Chambers (at least in my 2003 edition).

[Charpy]

I've just seen something which makes my four words unequivocal. Please ignore my previous post.

[Rogue-Elfe]

I'm there too, and wondering why the 'group' was incomplete. Why incomplete, you may ask, and in doing so you'll slyly reply to your own query.
There really does seem to be no reason for resolving the clashes in the way given, except: because you can. AHearer, I'm sure a few people were aware of this property before (by doing numerical substitution codes rather than other Listeners, in my case) but I can't remember it being used like this.
Not sure about the definition for 17, as the BRB doesn't specify from where the word comes to us.
Ah well, as other people are saying, that's another solve, and let's wait till next week.