CAM 65 Prize Crossword: Mind your Ps & Qs by Ifor

[Vagans]

This edition's puzzle is at http://www.alumni.cam...am65/CAM_65_LORES.pdf (on page 48). A cunning offering by Ifor (who also had a good puzzle in the Listener series in May 2011 and sets elsewhere too). All clues solved and grid filled - but still staring at it trying to understand the final manoeuvre. No hints needed - just letting you know the puzzle is out there, and as far as I know open to all to enter.

[Vagans]

Nothing too explicit please that would spoil Ifor's challenge.

[maurice]

No, but maybe s'thing implicit:it's driving me towards the loony bin!

[maurice]

...for example, can't you give a little hint'vétuste ennemi, how the unusual plural form is connected with the transposition of the letters or with the theme, whether p's & q's or what the replacements have in compmon? I repeat, I have everything, probably all correct now, including theme: it's only the final form or content of the 4 or 8 cells after the changes that seems to bear no relation to the other key elements! I've already mentioned several different "cues":a single word more would probably clinch it! I might even be looking for too much! I can't see the point of a forum if nothing is exchanged after several days, honestly!

[factor-fiction]

You are certainly persistent, maurice. I'm sure you'll get there in the end.
I haven't received my copy yet. Still there's plenty of time- 4 weeks to go to the closing date

[maurice]

3 weeks only, and i have (funnily enough) other things to do! A promising response, though.......................................

[imagcq]

have you figured out the duality them and made the required symbols within the grid?

[maurice]

Sorry, you're right about the time limit. There's nothing like making a suspense film out of it, of course. On forums otherwise -- of course I have less experience than you -- people are nearly always helpful, generous, polite, and willing to reveal tiny bits cleverly without revealing too much.That's also the way I react when I assist others . Is such a cat & mouse spiel really necessary? Sometimes people reveal an awful lot of their character here.

[imagcq]

look maurice im a member of the other forum to for a couple of years
they find me helpfull as i am generally here the other chap that butted in the other day causes trouble everywhere and drags others in to i was going to help but if you dont want any then fine plenty people to help this was a great puzzle enjoyed finishing it goood luck

[maurice]

imagcq: thank you for your goodwill! Maybe it's the symbols I don't see properly:mine might be interpreted by Freud or in a Rorschach test, but the leap to anything relevant to the issue is not easy. Unless you count what looks like a staircase over a big square box! Earlier I had s'thing resembling a gender symbol, but it wasn't perfect, and the title didn't enter into it in the literal sense of literally! Would you advise me to go on thinking along either of those lines, or am I still wandering down a long garden path? As I say, possibly just one "mot juste" from you would help! Over, but not out!

[maurice]

Unfortunately our contributions crossed! I think you will now see I'm VERY seriously interested, and I believe (at least hope) you are genuinely ready to help that tiny little bit. Will get off the air for a mo in case I'm missing another helpful posting.

[word_cross]

After a busy April with Listeners, Magpie and holiday, I've picked this one up again! I have solved all the clues including the 'appropriate replacements', just waiting for the penny to drop re moving other letters in thematic fashion... Anyone else still plodding on with it?

[olichant]

Eventually got it (I'm fairly sure) very late in the day. Needless to say, my original (5,4) was entirely wrong. But a very enjoyable puzzle.

[word_cross]

I have been through a number of options for (5,4), which I may share after the solution is published! I can't get any of them to work though, so still much head-scratching going on...

[maurice]

Rest assured, there is only one very obviously correct answer, but it took me "with a little help from my friends" a very long time to see it.Above all, you will probably never discover it if you're not familiar with a certain sport, which is not my prverbial cup of tea aqnyway at the best of times. Never faced such a challenge, never so relieved at the end --- and in my humble opinion far more fun nevertheless than anything the "Listener" ever had to offer!

[word_cross]

More staring then! Well done for finishing Maurice.

[word_cross]

The submission date has passed - does anyone want to put me out of my misery and explain the final elusive step to me while I wait for the solution to be published online?

[daagg]

Think of a board game with Ps and Qs (amongst others).

[word_cross]

Ah, the solution is published at last. I'm not surprised I didn't get there!

[olichant]

Now it's out in the open, I thought 31 across - admittedly mostly unch-free - was a little unfair. Or is that just me?

[word_cross]

I agree olichant - I still don't understand that one!