Listener 4185 : Ballad by Elgin

[trux]

(sorry started on wrong site, apparently) - so repeat here :
Well, we had all been moaning that the Big L was getting to be the Big EZ ... not this week, mefears but after a mammoth struggle, have now finished gridfill. OMG. Wow ! Thanks (methinks) to Elgin.... (see previous msg for longer version, too tired to type more....)

[magichour]

I think proof that you know what it is all about partly comes from the correct completion of an unclued entry. However, I agree that it might have been possible to request highlighting or writing of some thematic material below the grid. Haven't yet decided whether to submit the entry with the omitted column in place - I feel it completes the puzzle nicely - but given that it's not required, it may not be advisable!

[contendo]

Totally lost here after much grid-staring. I have 13 across answers and 15 downs but most of the acrosses simply don't mesh with the downs and the missing column seems to be wandering. Clearly I'm missing something but can read no hidden subtleties into the preamble.

[tramart]

contendo - As ever, a careful reading of the rubric is essential.
"either direction" and "symmetry" have to be read together.
Well worth the effort, and I too offer my thanks to Elgin.

[upsetter]

Contendo - I hope no one objects to me telling you this - but as the puzzle is now 5 days old I am sure that most of the serious solvers will have completed it anyway.
You are right, there is no indication in the rubric about the across entries apart from them being backwards or forwards - but one eventually comes to the conclusion that as it must be possible to enter them - the entry method is one that is quite often used in the Listener but when it is the setter usually indicates it. By the way the entries are not jumbled.
First you have to make an assumption as to where the missing column is and then look how some of you across answers can be put in.

[dead-eye]

....not forgetting that not all across answers appear in the grid. Superb puzzle.

[tristram37]

Unnecessarily obscure, in my opinion - difficulty for difficulty's sake. I thought the preamble re across answers was unfairly inadequate.

[qwerty99]

Started on Sunday evening; only just finished! I feel a little about this puzzle as I used to feel about rugby training: didn't look forward to it, hated doing it, but felt great afterwards. A slog indeed. But that is what you expect from Elgin. I warmed to the puzzle once I fully understood the cleverness of the symmetry. So off to have a look at the Inquisitor in Saturday's Indy. Elgin and Schadenfreude in one weekend - can't be bad!

[Walterloo]

Goodness gracious, I've done it. I really struggled to find the answers to E, F and O across and this slowed me down awfully. I finally discovered the theme and then it all came together in one massive, thank-goodness-that's-over clunk of relief. I still don't understand the wordplay to 8, 16 and 19 down. I agree with many positive comments on this puzzle but also agree to tristram37's views somewhat. Excellent construction, some brilliant and also overly difficult clues and a superb depiction of the theme if not a little unnecessarily ambiguous in the preamble. Can't sum it up any fairer than that.

[tilbee]

Well all completed (I think) - full grid, unclued row completed - but still no real understanding of what is the underlying theme. Time for Google methinks.

[tilbee]

Ah yes - very neat indeed. Would have been a pity to have missed this, but as already pointed out not necessary for a correct submission,

[qwerty99]

I am looking forward to seeing the printed solution, and whether it shows the missing column; and if it does, where? I am impressed that you filled the grid before you found the theme, Tilbee. I didn't get F and J until after the penny had dropped

[sunny-dave]

Phew - what a long hard road that was - started about teatime today and ground my way through.

Not impossible (obviously) but several notches up the difficulty scale from recent offerings.

Good one though - thanks Elgin.

[perseverer]

I'm another one who completed the grid without knowing what it was all about, and that took me till Monday morning. Now, 2 days later, Google has finally found me the theme, but only by going to about the 5th page of results! So now I realise what I should have Googled straight off. Obviously I don't know, but it seems to me that the editors may have decided that if you did not actually know the source, finding it was too difficult, especially without the Internet.
Anyway it does all come together very neatly if you persevere.

[tenflags]

toughie

[JackDeCrow]

Phew. Saved in the end by a slightly fortuitous piece of Googling based on a very hazy feeling that certain words went together. Not sure I would ever have got the last few clues (or one of the unclued entries) without spotting the theme and the missing column. And I still don't get the wordplay to 6d or 11d! I can't remember struggling with one for so long for a good while, so thanks Elgin - I think!!

[sunny-dave]

6d is a lovely clue - but I can't think of an easy hint without attracting the 'listener thread police'

11d is particularly abstruse - think currency abbreviations and a roman numeral.

[contendo]

Decided to throw in the towel as I just got bored with looking at it. Made little further progress despite nudges. It seemed to me to introduce complications for the sake of it, without their being inherent to the structure of the thing. Hope for better things this week.

[Alan7777]

Well I'm one of those who has managed to complete the grid (including the unclued row) and identify the missing column without getting the theme. Let's hope Google works for me.

This crossword is definitely at my limits of ability and it's been a hard slog. There are still a few clues where I have to work out the word play but I'm pretty confident with my answers. Also yet to work out the reason for the across clue(s) that don't appear in the grid.

[IainGrace]

Not looked at this since Sunday. We will have another look this weekend. I suspect we will (a) finish it (b) abandon it because it is too difficult or (c) flatter ourselves by claiming to abandon it because we don't have the time......................

[Whenland]

I'm with you Contendo. We've only managed to cold solve 11 across and 11 down clues so far. Too difficult.