Listener 4213 A Spirited Performance by Kruger

[midazolam]

I am not sure of the necessity here to clue this with a semi carte blanche/jigsaw style. It seems to be included only to make the puzzle harder. However the clues were very easy given the alpahbetical stance and I solved all but three before starting on the grid fill. I see no necessity for it here and would have preferred a harder set of clues and a normal grid. Extra words do not fill me with satisfaction either, however I did enjoy reading about the theme. Not one of the best this year, but a nice distraction for a gloomy, cold Friday evening.

[fortyseven]

Finished eventually by solving the majority of the clues yesterday evening and then putting the answers together whilst watching the football this afternoon. Agreed it was a bit of a chore to cold solve so much - I got all but eleven answers before turning to the grid. But with the hidden messages in the clues about theme and performers and with the bars already in position it's the sort of Listener where you reckon that you will get there in the end unless the final highlighting proves to be very challenging (which it isn't, fortunately).

[jim360]

It all sort of fell together very quickly towards the end. But the weirdest and most obscure theme I've seen so far!

For all that, a great puzzle and I'm pleased to have solved it - albeit with someone correcting my guess of "operation" for the "take loan, once arranged, in bleak process" clue.

[freiheid]

I very much enjoyed the PDM's as the two sets of thematic answers became apparent, but was rather underwhelmed by the denouement. It might have been more satisfying if the theme had been tied into a quotation or something, rather than one setter's loose description of some obscure events.

[sunny-dave]

Well I got quite close to giving up with this - the precise theme is (as has already been said) I think impossible to determine without solving virtually every clue, completing the grid and getting a good start on the extra letter phrases. But I ploughed on out of sheer bloody-mindedness and it drops out easily enough with google.

So a mega-chore of cold solving and grid assembly didn't even have a nice succession of pdms - just a rather underwhelming (because it was unguessable) single moment at the very end. Thank goodness the final grid-staring wasn't too hard.

All of which is a bit grumpy - but then I have been doing this on the day following the AB outing to the Birmingham Beer Festival - so perhaps my critical faculties were a tad blunter than usual ...

[tristram37]

I thought the clues were not at all easy and I am becoming increasingly allergic to all this cold solving. Surely the name "crossword" implies that one answer should contribute towards another. Fortunately I sussed the 9-letter words fairly early on, which gave me an entry into the grid. Even so it was a long hard slog and the final denouement a bit underwhelming, apart from its undoubted obscurity. For once the highlighting was obvious.

[olichant]

I found this a huge slog, but some of the clues en route were nice, and exploited the hidden words nicely. I was staring at "Nancy's from..." for ages, for example.

[Philoctetes]

I do wonder how early in the solving process it can become a crossword - I cold solved over 40 clues before I could a) fit any together (the long ones help, but they eluded me :( ) or b) see what the thematic treatments were. But it all fitted together quite easily in the end. Sorry i neglected to highlight the obvious in last week's list.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, 40 was our number too (which was why I commented earlier that this was not one for newcomers as we do, with practice, become a little more adept at solving Listener clues).

[AndrewG-S]

I think I started populating the grid with about 20 clues answered, but I did focus a bit on the 8/9 as it was clear that with the 9 crossing two 8s this was going to be a pretty quick way into the grid.

[Alan7777]

For me it wasn't until I had all the 8 and 9 letter answers and about 40 answers in total that I felt confident about starting to enter words into the grid. It all then fell into place quite quickly and the final step was much easier than most Listeners.

I didn't find the clues as easy as some clearly did - nothing new there then. Many thanks to Kruger for a good workout.

[tenflags]

Well I didn't find this easy as most (nothing unusual there) but quite enjoyed it and all finished.
Still pondering where the definition is in 42A - and it doesn't seem to fit either of the wordplay only gangs. Sure it's right but hey ho - maybe it will come when I look at it again.
Internerd access not required but comfort factor to ensure correct solution and to read about interesting performance.

[tenflags]

ahhh penny dropped now - amazing what a cuppa can do.

[tilbee]

I think there is a temptation with carte blanche grids to delay too long to put pencil to paper, which is certainly a problem that I used to suffer from. For example, in this case, once I had 20 or so answers cold solved, I started to enter as best as I could and everything came together quite quickly, always knowing that at some stage I might need to retread my steps. As for any good Listener, it is key to try to pull together all the strands of information you are provided in parallel rather than trying to resolve in series.

[dr b]

I always put carte blanche grids into a spreadsheet, so I have no fear of experimenting since moving words around is easy. As Andrew notes the 8s and 9s provided easy entry into the grid so I focused on those first; I was trying out possible solutions after 8 or 9 cold solves.

[Ruthrobin]

There you both go teaching an old dog new tricks. On the basis of that advice, I have just started filling the current Magpie C grade puzzle (by incognito) with very few clues cold solved. Yes, it's another Magpie plug - the new Magpie is just out www.piemag.com and the Nutmeg puzzle in it, for one, is most enjoyable.

[magichour]

I found this quite tough and it's taken till Thursday to finish off. The theme was too obscure for my liking. That said, it was an entertaining and (for me) tough puzzle. I started to try to enter answers after 15-20 clues solved and was able to fill one area of the grid quite satisfactorily. Took a while to fully understand what was going on. At least locating the 'third group' didn't prove too difficult once you knew what you were looking for. Quite a good puzzle, but would prefer that the themes be more easily locatable other than through Google searches.

[Philoctetes]

To be fair, no one needed to know anything about the provenance of the theme to be able to complete - you only "needed" Google after you had completed to understand one of the cryptically hidden messages. If you weren't interested, no problem. As a theme in general, it was entirely standard, conceptually well known and utterly predictable.

[Lathamjeld]

As a newcomer to Listeners (this is my 6th attempt & 4th completed), I found this really enjoyable. Some clues were easy & proved sufficient to hook me in, but others were taxing and, as ever, I was introduced to new meanings of familiar words (always enjoyable). As others have said, once the 8&9s were sorted, the grid fill could begin and, like many, this was when things started happening more quickly. I am, perhaps, a little younger (34) than many who have been completing the Listener for decades and, from a generational perspective, I might have slightly less of a problem in using the internet as a source of information (within limits, of course). I therefore enjoyed the theme which I felt was fun, interesting and topical! I suppose the bottom line is....do the setters of Listeners still expect solvers to be armed solely with a pile of good quality reference books, or have they moved with the technological times and accept that many of us will use Google (along with Chambers et al) to help us locate sources of information? Thanks Kruger - I really enjoyed the challenge.

[Ruthrobin]

Lathamjeld, it isn't so much the compilers as the editors and the Listener rules (and rules for most other advanced cryptics though the IQ, for example, will make exceptions) that impose the requirement about the availability of information. The material has to be available in standard reference books or accessible in a public library (which can, of course, be a problem for overseas solvers who might not know British football teams, the layout of the Glasgow underground or some British cultural issue). Fortunately, of course, we do have the Internet and there must be very few solvers who don't use it - though I know of a couple.

[olichant]

Ruthrobin, I think you might have persuaded me re the Magpie - I will look into a subscription. What would you say the difficulty level is? I've been doing Listeners for six months or so now - is it comparable? I almost wish I hadn't got into the habit. These things are dangerously addictive!...