Ev 1058 Principle By Jaguar

[dr b]

A nice puzzle up until the very last step which I felt was borderline unfair. The gridfill was straightforward as was identifying the group. But, the Chambers entry for the group identifies two properties shared by group members, and the puzzle's title clearly suggests which one of the two should apply to the last step. So, that sent me on a wild goose chase that lasted longer than the gridfill.

Once you find the 7-letter string, of course it's obvious, so congrats to the setter for the red herring and a fine construction overall.

[DocHH]

Hello dr b,
Have got a fully populated grid and have the word highlighted, just grid gazing (not my favourite pastime!) now to identify the 7 letter string, perhaps a glass of Merlot might help.

[devadolly]

How do you two do it? I am totally bemused by this one, I cannot get a proper handle on it at all...................I have manage the grand total of two with a further possible two and what could be an inappropriate answer for 19a in my mind! Just nothing seems to be making any sense at all.
Will try again tomorrow as am very tired from the London trip and it now looks as tho' I have got measles....................Measles would you believe? I'm far too old to have childhood diseases that I had when I was 10!
On a far different note, (not really possible for you drb) do try and get to the Manet exhibition anyone who is reading, it is superb. The largest collection of his paintings ever exhibited here. His use of black within the scope of portraiture and landscape is just mind-blowing........quite magnificent!

[jim360]

If you think your answer to 19a is inappropriate... you've probably got it right!

Hope you get better soon, and hope too that the mists of this puzzle rise.

[slaney]

I found the grid pretty difficult, and the rest not so much so. I didn't look in Chambers though, just went straight to Wikipedia - maybe that helped. And thanks to Jaguar for the challenge.

devadolly - I hope you get over your measles quickly- rare as hen's teeth to get it twice.

And I'm looking forward to the Manet next month when the weather will be a little warmer - maybe!

[olichant]

Good fun - thanks, Jaguar. Some very nice surface readings, and one or two particularly clever clues, I thought.

[Twit-Who]

Late start as I was away for the weekend and I am now at the same stage as DocHH. Too tired for the final hurdle - will look again tomorrow, hopefully refreshed.

[magwitch]

A nice puzzle, but surely it's a bit wide of the mark to say that the seven-letter word "describes a group"? Chambers lists it only as a noun, and the definition begins "one of a group..."

[jim360]

Well I mean, group, one of a group -- basically the same innit?

Actually all told the preamble probably could have done with a bit of tightening up, e.g. for "typical" perhaps "elementary" might have been better. Oh well.

[kayakamina]

I agree with others that there was some lovely clueing & a clever construction.

I took slaney's advice and went to Wikipedia first.

DD - sorry to read about your measles - get well soon x

[contendo]

Congratulations on an excellent debut Jaguar. I liked the thematic reference in one of the across clues. Good luck in next week's challenge.

[olichant]

I'd be interested to know if the title was intended to be misleading - or whether it follows from the property illustrated by the transformation. I have to admit, I am fully out of my depth in this area...

[jim360]

@olichant Answers to these and many more questions will be revealed once the solution is published...

[devadolly]

Thanks for the good wishes.......maybe it wasn't measles when I was 10 slaney...who knows!
Still feel rubbish and am just not getting anywhere with this one, have done a few more clues including a couple of the 'removals'.....but, how does one know which letters to take out, could be any number. Really feel I 'must do better' but just nothing is speaking to me, as for Wikipedia, what to Wik I ask?

[DocHH]

Devadolly, you will need to identify the word created by the omitted letters first, then ask Wiki about that, or look in the BRB. I identified the omitted letters by solving the intersecting clues, that then dictated the word formed by anagramming the letters left after removing the superfluous letter.
olichant, nothing to understand subject-wise, it's a cryptic instruction that can be deduced from the BRB or Wiki.

[Christiana]

Oh dear, finished the grid and word to be highlighted some time ago, but still haven't spotted the seven letter string, despite reading Wiki. Otherwise enjoyed this.

[toalisi]

I'd like to add my congratulations to Jaguar on an excellent puzzle.

As olicahant says there were some lovely surface readings & high quality clueing.

Well done.

[Christiana]

Ah, think I now have it, after final look before bed. Will check it out properly tomorrow.

[devadolly]

Thanks for the clues, have muddled my way through most of it but am no-where near a PDM, just being thick!

[aldanna]

I don't normally do the EV but tried this as it was Jim's. Fun puzzle, but without dr b's initial post I would have permanently stalled on the red herring. Interesting to see several familiar names from the Listener threads here - do you people do anything but crosswords?

[ringer]

Hats off to Jaguar who has kept me busy for a full week. Only just managed to spot the string. I know I'm a bit late - but I trust you are well on the road to recovery DD.