Listener 4254 (Political Correctness Gone Mad By Waterloo)

[Alekhine]

Almost midnight and no thread yet?

Something wrong, surely? This wasn't that hard.

[Ruthrobin]

Ah, I understand your objection teuchter 2 but think you could apply the same reasoning to 12, for example. Saying more would become a spoiler but the preamble does say 'male references' as opposed to 'males'.

[Philoctetes]

I am with Teuchter here. And applying the same process to 12 would be bizarre, as there is no necessarily male reference involved if we move to the fourth "dimension". Back to school, RR!

[fyellin]

Still stymied by 25A, although all letters are cross-checked. I see the (probable word play), but I don't see how what's left can in any way be considered a definition. Is it just a really, really loose definition, or is there something subtle?

Fortunately, the grid is completely filled in even without understanding this.

@Staurologist: The war has been lost. Even according to the BRB, the second defn of "gender" is "sex". As the primary meaning of "sex" has shifted from "male/female distinctions" to "sexual intercourse", "gender" has expanded its territory to take over most of the non-sexual meanings of "sex".

[dr b]

if you look up the answer to 25A in Chambers you won't see "what's left" in the clue as one of the definitions (at least in the WordWeb Pro version of it that I have), but it is specifically there in the OED.

[fyellin]

@dr b: Thanks. Without the specific reference in the BRB, it felt vaguely plausible but weak.

[Scorpius]

Olichant, I didn't have you primarily in mind, though there may have been something similar in your comment. Anyway, it's not a big issue. It's easy to avoid seeing inadvertent spoilers by avoiding this site until after completing the puzzle.

[Texasetes]

I think I know which post you're referring to, Scorpius, and my thoughts were the same as yours. Spoilers have been appearing here too often lately for my liking, so I stay away until either I've finished or Friday midnight arrives. If the latter then after checking whether a thread has been created, I go away again.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the preamble is as much a part of the puzzle as the clues are. The omission of any apparently necessary information is almost always deliberate, with the intention that the solver should figure it out for themselves. Posting 'clarifications' here is as good as giving PDMs away.

[borealis]

I'm with Scorpius (don't look here till finished) and fyellin (25a had me worried). It went in the envelope but thanks Dr B for the reassurance.

This was at least medium hard, but what I enjoyed about it was being able to work out, for once, how it must have been constructed. It was good, also, not to be able to look up longer words easily; maybe some of you see this as a slog, but the challenge is better, I feel. Thanks, Wat'isloo.

[Spoonboy]

Could someone please tell me what Listener is?

[Mamyalynne]

http://www.listenercrossword.com/

[Spoonboy]

Thank you Mamyalynne :)) a gold spoony award for you.

[Mamyalynne]

you are welcome

[Alan7777]

Another coincidence regarding The Listener and The Times Jumbo - 10 down in the former and 3 down in the latter.

And I wasn't able to find any entries in the on-line OED to help with 25 across but I'm happy with my answer.

[EAChaplin]

Texasetes (and others). I don't know how long you've been visiting Listener threads on AB but how about this for a hint:
http://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Quizzes-and-Puzzles/Question389122.html

[JackDeCrow]

Am happier with 25a than I am with 30a. Luckily the wordplay gives a pretty definite answer but I must be missing something or that's a very loose definition! Hopefully posting here will bring inspiration.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, EACHaplin but there was dramatic action on the part of ABers just before I started participating soon after that example. People became very angry and objected noisily to any blatant hints. I assumed the thread was like any other AB thread and arrived with a naive question. The active people immediately made the difference of the Listener thread clear and I think the tone is generally one of friendship and support of each other's struggles with only the rare aberration (yes, I have been inadvertently guilty too!)

[Philoctetes]

Sadly, there are a couple of contributors here - you know who you are - who seem to take delight in nearly giving the game away. But generally they can be ignored.

[IainGrace]

Coming to this late but making fair progress. Agree some wordplay is obscure but noted that it is worth pursuing.

[IainGrace]

Finished. Enjoyable. Worth drilling down into all wordplay for certainty of solution.