Sunday Times 4633

[mikey4444]

1a....A piece about fine 17 member....?M?R?C?

AMERICA ? Can't see how !

[AlwaysConfused]

embrace? what is the answer to 17

[Mamyalynne]

American

A Man (piece on a chess board) round Eric (an old Tac in Ireland)

[mikey4444]

Not sure that EMBRACED is right...should have been ?M?R?C?? by the way...sorry.

17 is "Code words used on the radio for US baseball team "....YANKEES

[Lie-in King]

1a American - 'a man' (a piece, about) 'eric' ([a] fine, in old Irish law)

[Mamyalynne]

Tax - sorry

[mikey4444]

Mamy...not sure what a TAC is, and where is American defined within the clue ?

[mikey4444]

Mamy...crossed in post ! But I still can't see the definition.

[Jackdaw33]

If you can't see the connection between Yankees and American...

[Mamyalynne]

I wouldn't have put it quite so tersely - but yes Yankee = American.

[mikey4444]

I am sure you wouldn't mamy ! But you are always so polite !

So the definition is for member...a member of the Yankees then ?

[Mamyalynne]

Yes it is.

[Jackdaw33]

A piece about fine - is the wordplay

17 member - is the definition; a Yankee is an American.

[mikey4444]

Thanks mamy.

Isn't it unusual for a cryptic answer not to be defined by a word in the clue but by reference to another clue ? After all, America is not defined any word within its own clue ?

[Mamyalynne]

Not very common in the Times but it does happen - always the first thing to do if I see a number in the clue is to check if that refers to another clue.

[mikey4444]

Once again.....thanks Mamy !

[Jackdaw33]

The Grauniad used to be notorious for that. Things like, 6 of 15 has 27, but no 18. I made that up as an example - it's meaningless as it stands.

[Mamyalynne]

Oh Yes far more common there, I agree.


Nice to chat Mikey.