Listener No. 4402: Right And Wrong By Tnap

[AHearer]

Very satisfying. Some very good clues with some neatly hidden misprints. I'd forgotten that quotation, and was delighted to be reminded of it. Early on I thought there was going to be an ambiguity, but then I saw what tnap had spotted about the number of letters in the quotation. Many thanks, tnap.

[olichant]

I agree, AHearer - some very good clues indeed. I very much enjoyed that. Thanks, tnap.

Incidentally, for anyone wanting an additional challenge over the weekend, there's a very nice puzzle by Shackleton on the Crossword Center website.

[AHearer]

Thanks for that, olichant. I normally only visit that site about once a month, so I hadn't seen this one. Fun, but far less tortuous than Shackleton's usual offerings. The remaining quandary is whether to
(a) submit now with my true opinion
(b) submit now with a random opinion
(c) cop out and submit after the result is known.
Given the fact that the campaign is all 'might' and 'could' rather than 'will', (b) seems the rational choice. I'd be happy never to see another referendum on anything in this country -- they bring out the worst in us.

[Ruthrobin]

But Shackleton did turn it into a bit of fun and with his usual polish. I submitted it with my choice. I think it will be interesting to see how crossworders vote. We two million overseas Britons are disenfranchised anyway so it gave me one tiny voice.
I hadn't forgotten tnap's quotation - I had never heard it before but this has been really challenging.

[Hagen]

I spent far too long getting working out where the last six replacements should be because I didn't read the preamble sufficiently carefully.

Nice puzzle. I didn't know the quotation but it's used to great effect here.

[starwalker]

Some tough clues in there and a quotation that was new to me (again !)
Thanks tnap, it was a bit of a struggle, but I got there in the end.

[s_pugh]

Like Hagen I got stuck on the last six, except that I can see which six need changing but while two of the changes seem clear the other two sets of two each have two possibilities. I presume I must have gone wrong somewhere with my cross-checking as this seems totally ambiguous? Are we to enter whatever we fancy as per "the replacements are not checked by a crossing entry" comment?

[perseverer]

No ambiguities, but you do have to be very methodical.
I never cease to marvel at how setters manage to put together grids which satisfy the restrictions they set themselves.

[Ruthrobin]

tnap, I see you are on Answerbank occasionally. Is there a chance of a Setter's blog on Listen With Others?

[catteg01]

Is there a mistake in 36d? The misprint seems to be in the word play, not the definition. Or have I missed something?

[perseverer]

Sorry, no mistake. Clue is ok.

[UglyUncle]

It looks as if I'm not the only one to find this very difficult. But I seem to be alone in venturing to say that it was a mite tiresome as well.

Gone are the days when I could knock a challenge like this off in a couple of hours on a Friday afternoon. But gone also it, it seems, are the days when this forum attracted large numbers of thoughtful contributors. Où sont les sages d'antan? (© UglyUncle)

[s_pugh]

Well I've been methodical and gone through this dozens of times and still I see an ambiguous ending. Must be too stupid.

[perseverer]

S_pugh. Our conventions on this site make it difficult to help, but if you want, you can contact me on perseverer49(at)yahoo(dot)co(dot)uk and I will try to nudge you in the right direction

[olichant]

Oncle, n'enquerez de sepmaine où ils sont...

I found resolving the endgame very pleasing, I have to say - but it did require very careful record-keeping.

[Philoctetes]

I very much enjoyed this (especially as i possess four copies of the relevant tome!). In fact, this is an exemplary Listener, starting off impenetrable, with hard, fair clues, a series of pdms culminating in a satisfying, unambiguous endgame. I was worried that the quotation might be too obscure, but there it is in ODQ. Best of all, though it is based on a particular area of knowledge, you do not have to share that knowledge to succeed. A round of applause for Tnap

[fyellin]

@s_pugh: I think olichant gave you the hint you need: very careful record keeping.

[icynorth]

Most enjoyable challenge, thanks tnap. When ambiguity warning lights flashed, I knew not to panic.

Impressive grid, I agree.

[tnap]

Thank you for your kind words. I hope my efforts brought more joy that frustration.

Ruthrobin suggested I do a setter's blog on Listen With Others. I would, but I'm not entirely sure how I go about posting on that site. I can't find how to register or contact the site's owners. Any help appreciated.

[Ruthrobin]

Great tnap. Contact me at [email protected] and I'll give you details.

[olichant]

On the ambiguity point (and there is none here) I have often idly wondered whether "there is no ambiguity" is itself a rule of every (well, almost every) Listener crossword. The amount of effort that setters and vetters put in to these things to try to eliminate ambiguity should give solvers comfort when they find themselves up against an apparently intractable problem.