thanks tuvok, I have it now, but I've never heard the phrase before which makes it harder to solve, I only got it by doing what you advised, that is why early or late does not really matter, you are just asking for help and I got it from you, it must be difficult for others to solve as well because no one else as answered so you will have helped them too, thank-you
It helps having done a few of the Pendelside quizes in the past, as the setter explains how to solve each one when he sends the answers when the next quiz comes out.