listener 3968: babes by aedites

[midazolam]

a very nice offering from aedites

although a lot of tough words today

[cruciverbali]

I agree, some unusual 5-letter words, though apart from this probably another good one for newcomers to take a look at.

[jabone]

I wonder which of you two will finish first next week.

[midazolam]

no competition jabone, as cruciverbali is by far the superior. Just got a roll last night and enjoyed immensely

but i am glad i finished it, as we have a rather blatant attack from a disgruntled solver with all the answers.

i wonder how many correct solutions will be submitted this week. i am one for this site and help to those that ask (as i have asked a few times) but i feel this might spark a riot

[midazolam]

although it does make me chuckle because if he had submitted his grid he wouldnt have an all correct year cos he has one wrong!!!

[jabone]

I'm glad I'd finished it too, unusually early. It makes me sad that there is such unpleasantness. I really fear for the statistics which have given me a lot of pleasure and instruction, and provide the impetus to try to do a little better each year.

[Quizmonster]

I take it that the 'unpleasantness' you refer to, Jabone, was the vulgar manipulation of Crosswit's name. Saddening, indeed!

[jabone]

No I didn't really object to that, but to his reaction to it. Also I was disturbed by the discussion about having had assistance with eight puzzles, hence achieving 100% and so being in line for the solvers' silver salver. I'm a bit confused about where I stand here. I am quite sure that to help beginners with hints while the crossword is still 'live' is constructive, but am unhappy about this other end of the spectrum. But where/how does one draw the line? I had a logical problem at the end of 3967 but a quick check (before the discussion about the top L corner which I had sorted anyway) showed me that no one else had, and sent me back to think again. How much help is that? Both questions probably rhetorical.

[cluelessJoe]

Having completed (some time after you guys - well done), I took a look at the current villain's post ...

Quizmonster, you would appear to concur with his sentiment that he is quite in order to post and dedicate his childish effort "To the kind gentleman who believes I am called Crosstw*t77" ... you seem to know where he is coming from, so any chance you can point me at the thread which contained what you term the "vulgar manipulation" of his username?.

That particular post sems to have passed me by - I have checked and re-checked his "what a star I am for wangling a dinner invite" thread, and the only play on his name in there seems to be my calling him Nitwit (whereas actually after this week's pathetic post he ranks as no better than a Half-wit).

I'm pleased to reflect that the core of opinion on this site so far as the Listener is concerned still seems to be in favour of moderation, coaching and encouragement rather than wanton spoiling. (And yes Quizmonster, I do know from past exchanges exactly where you stand in this debate, so let's continue to agree to differ on that).

As is perfectly clear, this weekly puzzle gives a huge amount of enjoyment to a large number of people - let's all continue to derive pleasure from it, let's try to help others to climb the ladder, lets rejoice in the fact that it is still something of an institution. Something to be revered - not devalued or shot down by people on some kind of weird agenda. I'm not bothered about whether or where I rank in the stats table, but I do kind of like the idea that there are a lot of people out there who do care, and care passionately. Good on them! I don't want to see their or anybody's enjoyment spoiled by some selfish idiot.

PS please feel free to mess with my username if you think I'm out of line or deserve some kind of reprimand. I promise I won't revert to childishness in return. Bests to all!

[Quizmonster]

Clueless, will it count as a "wading in" or a "rant" if I respond here?
Perhaps another Listenerite got the offensive post complained of by Crosswit removed. I saw it and tried later to find it...I'm not too sure, but I might even have responded to it...but could not.
As long as Listenerites fail to grasp my viewpoint, namely that...
"All prize crossword clues are sacred or none are"...
I shall go on concurring with anyone who feels he's free to reveal Listener answers.
If Azed, Mephisto, Guardian Genius etc entrants are treated with contempt by Listenerites revealing the answers, they have no grounds whatsoever for claiming special circumstances for theirs. End of story.

[cluelessJoe]

Hi QM - I think we still must agree to differ on this issue. You know my views as well as I know yours.

As I have said before, I don't hold this puzzle as sacred, but the Listener DOES differ from other "prize" crosswords through the massive work of JG the statistician. A lot of people have special regard for it for that reason, and I for one do have great respect for their views.

It is because of this special nature that I regard the antics of the nitwit this week as utterly contemptuous.

That despite the fact that although I disagree with you, I respect your right to state your case - but I find it surprising that even you are so happy with Crosswit's grossly childish behaviour.

[Quizmonster]

Joe, there's a scene in the film Judgement at Nuremberg where a German judge (Burt Lancaster, as I recall) - deemed a war criminal for his distortion of the law - claimed "I did not believe it would come to this." By 'this' he clearly meant the mass extermination of mental defectives, homosexuals etc. The American judge handling the case replied, "It had come to this the minute you first sentenced a man you knew to be innocent" or words to that effect.
In crossword terms, reveal one answer, reveal thirty, what's the difference? Especially given that no one was obliged to...or even ought to, if a Listenerite...open the thread.
Clearly, Crosswit was insulted by someone with much the same feelings about the Listener crossword as your own and I can see no reason at all why he should just sit back and take it. Accordingly, he responded as he saw fit. (Neither he, nor I - or anyone else who agrees with us - has ever insulted a Listenerite directly, it should be said, as far as I know.)
I won first prize in the Mephisto twice and got four runner-up cheques in a relatively short period of time. These are statistics, too! Shouldn't I be allowed to improve my statistics in the same way as you are via the Listener with Mr Green's help? If mine are to be put in jeopardy, then why shouldn't yours be, too?

We are, of course, wasting our time here. There is absolutely no way you are going to convince me that the dedication of one statistician and the interests of a handful - relatively speaking - of solvers demands special treatment. Nor will I ever convince you of the rightness - in my view - of my opinion. So we might as well leave it at that.

[ListenerFan]

I can't help feeling that if The Listener hadn't been accorded the slightly ridiculous status of the live puzzle that dares not speak its name - to the extent that someone at The Crossword Centre recently almost caused a panic by mentioning that something on the site had been altered between the Friday and Saturday but refused to expand further - then people here wouldn't be so keen to **** a snook at its perceived smug preciosity.