Listener 3979

[cruciverbali]

This week's challenge is Huge Ruin (Remote) by Gos

[Rapparee]

Thanks for the link, Cruciverbalist. This one reminds me of Araucaria!

[cluelessJoe]

Yet again, many thanks for the Friday link C.

[JMR27]

Hi cruciverbalist and thank you

[Scorpius]

A tough carte blanche to fill with all those 4-letter and 5-letter words. Some of the clues are not so easy either, with some very unfamiliar definitions used in the wordplay. I'm not sure that the first sentence of the preamble is accurate as far as the puzzle's title is concerned.

[bobbycollins]

Struggling with this. I think that there may be more to it than is indicated by the preamble. Pretty sure that some of the solutions aren't fully supported by the wordplay,but that may be just me being thick.

I am also peeved that one of the solutions is a hidden word, but the host word isn't in the clue. That has to be a bit unfair.

[Scorpius]

I don't think I've noted any clues where the solution is not supported by the wordplay, but I think there's a dubious anagram indicator and I have certainly placed a query against the clue to which I think bobbycollins is referring. I think this level of indirectness is unfair.

[IntoTheBlue]

Still debating whether I've got the correct solution here. I've got the two dramatised works and I'm pretty sure what happens to at least one of them. Not sure though where the title comes into it yet for the third work and like BobbyCollins I've still got doubts over several wordplays . Overall this in my opinion is one of the toghest we've had for a while.

[Philoctetes]

Yet another where the hard work is done, all clues solved, and I haven't a clue as to how the grid should be adjusted

[Scorpius]

The last sentence of the preamble seems very vague, and includes an alternative in that 'or'. No clear indication of whether that is an inclusive 'or' or an exclusive 'or'. No clear indication whether 'title' means the title of the puzzle or each individual title of the featured works. If 'content' means I have to read the featured works, I don't think I have time.

[andrewvc12]

I think the significant word is what's missing from 1ac. I'm not going to read 37ac either.
Andrew

[Philoctetes]

Got it. Thank heavens for Google and a hot bath

[Cruncher]

I am presuming that only the two works that feature in the grid need to be dramatised/adjusted, as the title of the crossword has been dramatised already. Or does anyone reckon that there are three adjustments to be made?

[andrewvc12]

I'd agree with that. The preamble does say "grid.....adjusted ....of ITS featured works".
Andrew

[midazolam]

a late start on this last night after a busy weekend away

1. there are 2 examples where the definition is the wordplay, it is cryptic after all, so i think it adds something extra rather than being unfair

2. agree a bit confusing using the word title in the last sentence of the preamble. One of the works has to be adjusted according to its own title the other by its main content. (so that is why it says "or")

3. the words "in some way" i think can be ignored concerning the grid entries as apart from ignoring leading articles that is it. The main title is "in some way" represented

All in all the grid filling was not too bad once the 8 letter words were got and the wordplay seems to be ok on the whole.

[bobbycollins]

The inclusion of "Title" in the last sentence of the preamble muddies the waters until the final solution has been seen. I agree that only two moves are required, and am left feeling vaguely dissatisfied after a pretty tough puzzle.

Still don't fully see two wordplays and have another grouse (about a subsidiary indication referring to a geographical location that is not included in the wordplay)

[IntoTheBlue]

Finally got there. I've seen the relevance of the puzzle's title as the third 'dramatised' work and can finally see why 37a moves as it does. I'm pretty sure I've seen all the wordplays as well - the last to be tumbled being the Scottish shack. Now I look at the puzzle as a whole again I think it is better than I first thought although agree with the comments around the preamble.

[midazolam]

i agree - there must be praise for setters who create grids that contain real words once words are moved, it is a shame we are more focused on some words in the preamble

However the listener editors must look closer at the preamble as (compared to other equally good thematic crosswords) time and time again misleading, irrelevant or overcomplicated word(s) are added.

Some crosswords seem to rely on these preambles to make the crossword more difficult, that should be the clues / clue alterations / PDM that should do that.

i could talk all day about this and back my comments up with about half a dozen examples just this year alone

[dr john]

I've been searching the grid all week for more works to dramatise, before deciding that there must only be two. Now that I can look here, it seems the rambling preamble was the problem all along.
(Did we need to be told that 1 and 37 were unclued, or that the title was somehow involved?)

[cluelessJoe]

Agree with most - some elegance to the puzzle, but let down by the loosely worded preamble and some dodgy clueing. Generally enjoyable, but I'm surprised it sneaked past the editorial panel in such rough form!

[Scorpius]

I've stayed away from this thread for a few days, not wanting any hints as to the final step. Once I read some synopses of the works (which I'd mostly forgotten) I took another look at the grid and saw a grid adjustment I could make, but it left me rather dissatisfied. I could see a clear reason for one of the moves, which I'd been contemplating from the beginning, but I couldn't see a clear reason for the other move.
Now I've returned to the thread I see that others are dissatisfied as well. I completely agree with midazolam that the first occurrence of "in some way" is superfluous and confusing.
To add to the points already made about the preamble, the "dramatisations" are film adaptations, they are not the titles of the original stories. One of the film titles omits a key word from the original that is needed to justify one aspect of the "grid adjustment". Therefore, it would seem that the grid adjustment is made in accordance with the content of the featured works, but not in accordance with the title of either of them as featured.
To bobbycollins, if you look up the word in Chambers you should see the relevance of the geographical location (that is if I've guessed correctly which clue you're referring to).