Listener 4008

[cruciverbali]

This week's crossword is Knitwear by 149

[Clamzy]

Well I've sent in my entry with the final "O" in 33 down and I'll be astonished if it's marked wrong.

[himsuperstar]

thanks clamzy
looks like a few people are having problems with ambiguities

[jamesah]

Thanks for your help Clamzy- I feel like Watson after one of Holmes' explanations! Just a matter of filling in gaps now.

[Scorpius]

I expect you're right, Clamzy, but I don't like ambiguities, which are very rare in The Listener. I find it difficult to believe that this one wasn't spotted.

I�ve exhausted all possibilities that I can think of to resolve the ambiguity of 33d, so I hope it is unforeseen, not an ambiguity that can be thematically resolved. Like JackDeCrow I was struck by some connections between clues and entries. For instance there�s an obvious connection between the original answer to 20 and the final entry for 38. I�ve found a number of such links, but nothing like a full set of pairings.
I�m also puzzled by the preamble�s comment: �Chambers is the sole reference, except for one proper name appearing in the grid; one further proper name referred to can be found at a related entry.�
The final grid contains one name that does not appear in Chambers (28 down); one clue answer is also a proper name that is not in Chambers, but that is altered, so doesn�t appear in the final grid. What is meant by �one further proper name referred to�at a related entry�? "Referred to" could relate to the final entry at 17, which, interestingly, relates to an altered clue answer elsewhereI took this as a hint to indicate that various entries in the final grid are in some way related, but ,as I said earlier, I haven't been able to take it to a conclusion.

I cannot make up my mind whether this is an unsatisfactory puzzle or a very clever one with some thematic trick that a lot of people are missing.

[Scorpius]

Sorry for yet another post. The Listener website has a STOP PRESS item saying the title of the puzzle is KNITWARE, as in the newspaper, not KNITWEAR as in the online version. Whether this is crucial or not I've no idea.

[starwalker]

Scorpius - I suspect that the powers that be will resolve the 33d problem on the basis that 'Chambers Dictionary (2003) is the sole reference' ie, whatever the CDROM may offer does not count if it is not in the book version

[gribble]

Clamzy, thanks also from me all fell into place perfectly thanks to your suggestion yesterday.

[midazolam]

very interested to see why the online version has changed its stance re: knitware. the letters have no relevance to the k/p pattern and this word does not exist.

agree that 33down is the non-pluralised possibility. i am pretty sure there are no ambiguities in the rest of the final grid. also the proper name referred to is one of the original answers meaning that there is only one final proper name not specified in chambers.

[bobbycollins]

Finally got there - I found the grid entries relatively straightforward after deciphering "P" & "k".

I have a proper noun at 18a which hasn't been discussed, I must revisit that one.

In agreement with the general sentiments. Stunning grid construcion, but some very woolly (sorry) clues. Maybe that was a deliberate elaboration of the theme!!! Just kidding. I felt that this could have almost been a combined effort, with the compiler being knackered after the grid construction and enlisting the help of a lesser colleague to clue the entries.

Having said all of that, perversely, the looseness of some clues probably enhanced my enjoyment.

[Cruncher]

Well - those of you who had this all stitched in time for Sunday lunch deserve a round of applause. I thought this was jolly hard work - albeit entertainingly hard work. I agree that 28dn is the unChambered word. There is a Chambers entry for 18ac that will give a unique entry for 1 down. I can't make sense of the wordplay for 30dn but slightly beyond caring at the moment. And likewise tried to make some sense out of the letter shifts and failed.

[Cruncher]

Aah - 30dn sussed. Usual business - post a message and the penny drops. Off to the postbox

[copelander]

I think the amended title is relevant, as it can be knitted to the same pattern as the across clues to form a thematic item whereas "Knitwear" can't. Though I'm not sure if anyone really cares at this stage !

[perseverer]

Ware (as opposed to wear) gives 2 possibilities, one very relevant, and one which could be relevant, but more likely might describe your reaction when faced by a Listener crossword.

[bobbycollins]

Thanks, Cruncher. I had dismissed the entry at 18a without bothering to consult Chambers.

I don't think that there is anything else but the obvious happening here, but I am only a B-list solver so may be missing something.

[jamesah]

It doesn't matter much now but what are these two words made by treating 'knitware' appropriately? I haven't managed to think of one yet.

[perseverer]

Sorry if I wasn't clear enough - I don't see anything from knitware either, but there are a couple of obvious ones from ware on its own.