Listener Crossword 4017 - A Knotty Problem

[Apache4D]

Thought I would be exceptionally rude and post the link to the latest Listener that I have been waiting for all week!!

This is my first year of attempting the Listener crosswords and have managed to complete the first two offerings which seem to be of an easier standard. As for 4017, I can't even unravel the pre-amble so not sure how I'm going to fair. Good luck to All!


http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/art s_and_entertainment/games_and_puzzles/article5 521975.ece

[midazolam]

i presumed as one of the 2 you are thinking of is also a pudding in Chambers - so i went for that

By the way 39 across i thought was technically wrong. They would not be found at Balmoral - see wikipedia - an interesting article

[Mysterons]

2 Down is another &lit, obviously a favourite clue type of Homer. Dish serves as both the definition and the anagram indicator.

[Walterloo]

Thankyou midazolam. I will now be able to sleep tonight.

[Walterloo]

. . . and thanks to you Mysterons.

[segue]

Thanks to all - I always enjoy unravelling your contributions to help me on my way. madmax, glad I'm not the only one still going on last week's; nice to have an easier one to start the year with too.

[AHearer]

Yes, midazolam, but perhaps the occasional 39across uses its legendary speed in cross-country rather than sprint events.

[Scorpius]

Nice puzzle, but I thought some of the &lits showed signs of strain and the cryptic syntax in some was a touch inelegant (37 being a notable example).

[perseverer]

AHearer, good to find someone with an even older Brewer's than mine - the 1975 edition - which does mention the helpers.

[AHearer]

Yes, perseverer, my (eighth) edition is an old friend (acquired as a school general knowledge prize, which dates me!), and I've been reluctant to lose its quirkiness for the more matter-of-fact recent editions. For example, its entry for Colonel Bogy (sic) explains that 'during World War I troops on the march were forbidden to sing a catchy song entitled Colonel Bogy as the words they substituted for the real ones were not considered edifying.' I admit that the updated editions with the words to the World War II versions contain more information, but...

[cluelessJoe]

Agreed Scorpius ... a bit of a curate's egg, though generally very cleverly constructed. Shame about the Brewers' reference - mine also does not have it, so I think the editorial team need to tighten up on alternative references - that's two Brewers' mentions in recent weeks which have been very hit and miss (mostly miss judging by the consensus here!).

[perseverer]

AHearer, this could easily turn into a boasting competition, but here I would clearly lose because my edition simply describes Colonel Bogey as being "also the name of a well-known military march tune by K J Alford." Now off to search google for a WW1 version. And there I thought the version I learned (unofficially) at school at much the same time as you was definitive.

[Cruncher]

I thought 10dn quite neat - pity that one word reappeared in the answer. And similarly thought 37dn OK. Rather liked the elliptic definitions. Was it my imagination or was there a preponderance of locationally appropriate vocabulary and answers in the upper part of the grid?

Particularly liked 24ac.

[Apache4D]

Well for fear of cementing my position as an Also-Ran, I have finally completed the crossword. I have to admit that more so than any other grid this year, I had to resort to techniques that I would consider cheating in any of the daily cryptics! Namely lots of thesaurus usage, and chambers word wizard! Apologies to all the hardcore solvers.

My shiny new copy of chambers is now enjoyably thumbed, and I have learnt a raft of new words.....one of the many reasons for doing cryptics versus GK in my humble opinion.

Though I feel i've cheated myself slightly as there are numerous clues I cannot crack the wordplay for, was pleased with the result, and my latest copy of brewers summed up every aspect of the pre-amble in one single entry, very gratifying.

Have enjoyed everyone's discussion on the grid and will now allow myself to start this weeks Enigmatic Variations.

P.S does anyone now if you can submit printed off copies of the grid, or does it have to be sent on the original from the books section? I wasn't able to buy a paper on saturday :(

[Mysterons]

The weekly draw is made by John Green, and he will accept entries that have been printed out and cut to the required size.

[Clamzy]

Unfortunately my local authority doesn't use my generous donation of Council Tax to subscribe to Credo, so it's off to the library this morning. Actually my great etc., grandad was a blacksmith and I always thought the ceremony at the anvil was more romantic than the option I shall find in Brewers.
But this is the Answerbank so let's have a question. Has anyone come across a word or meaning in the new edition of Chambers which wasn't in the old one, when solving this year's Listeners?

[bobbycollins]

Well, I really did have to persevere with this!

I found it rather a slog and agree with several earlier posts that some clues were somewhat contrived. I seem to remember really enjoying Homer's puzzles in the past, but I only kind of enjoyed this one.

[lordbadger]

Well, this all seemed like a bit of a dog�s breakfast to me.

Having removed the things not required, and arranged the helpers etc., does anything else exciting happen with the letters left behind?? Or am I just left with a bunch of meaningless non-words in the final grid?

[Mysterons]

The letters remaining in the Southern area should reveal the name of that location - not sure whether that will excite you enough though ?

[perseverer]

A word of thanks to Castro for drawing attention to the local council access to the Credo system. Just checked it out from home, and finally been able to track down the reference to Hunt the Slipper in Brewer's from a few weeks back. Also I see you can access the Collins English Dictionary needed in Conflict Resolution.

[lordbadger]

Thanks Mysterons. No that wasn�t quite exciting enough, was it? Call me old-fashioned but I�d have expected something meaningful to happen north of the border in the grid. Either I�ve not quite finished, or it�s one big damn mess up there.