Listener 4018 In clue order on and on by Loda

[Philoctetes]

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/art s_and_entertainment/games_and_puzzles/article5 561552.ece
Phew - I thought this might have got lost in the Times upgrade

[midazolam]

sorry meant 4th instruction

Walterloo - i am sure there is more to it than that.

Thanks turnerjmw I must be on the right track and i think my line is correct as it also goes through the centre cell, but i need to convince myself how.

[midazolam]

yep me being thick there are more than 7 depending how you interpret ??? in the top row

[Walterloo]

This is all becoming very interesting. I thought I'd finished it but now I'm going to have to check it when I get home. All this talk of the line going through squares has got me worried, even though I was 100% confident I'd interpreted everything correctly. Hmmm...

[robinruth]

Thanks for the explanation of the 2008 edition - that made sense.
By gaps, I meant clues we haven't solved, as even the on-line edition doesn't seem to give me solutions to 29, 31 and 40. But do the other three instuctions help there? I think not.
I wish someone would give a really broad clue about how to interpret that ??? in the top row.

[cluelessJoe]

Midazolam - I can see exactly what you did because I too kicked off with those seven letters before rethinking.
All I can say is that you must have been inspired to get to the final act with only those to play with ... now you have seen the light, you can probably appreciate how much easier it was (particularly with the extra prompt) going the right way!

[cluelessJoe]

Robinruth - suspect you are interpreting it correctly, just applying it in the wrong place

[robinruth]

Yes, thank you so much to Clueless Joe and Midazolam. Am I right in assuming that a line can go on and on and on? I think I needed 14 letters.

[Spaghetti]

The ??? ??????? (top row) have ??????? (bottom row). If those ??????? (bottom row) are just 1 letter, there seem to be 14 of them. Am I on the right lines?

[Philoctetes]

By Tutatis! This is like being led through a dark forest with a blindfold on and then, at the centre, taking it off and everything becomes clear. Hats off to Loda! (Sorry, I know that helps no one, but I just felt overawed)

[turnerjmw]

Spaghetti, yes you are. But you might also think about the unclued centre cell too, and look at those letters. The title might help give you a steer

[growf]

I can see a few people are getting bogged down. Here's my two-penn'orth:

Step 1. Down misprints give a fairly obvious instruction.

Step 2. Result of step 1 applies only to across clues to give another instruction.

Step 3. The third word of the result of step 2 is an abbreviation. The instruction itself can be followed by converting letters to numbers (A=1, B=2, etc.) then back again (1=A, ..., 26=Z, 27=A, 28=B, etc.) yielding another instruction.

Step 4. As far as I can tell, you're supposed to slap quotation marks around the first nine letters of the instruction and figure out for yourself in what order to use them to complete the next instruction.

Step 5. At this point you should have a completed grid and another instruction - note that you should be looking at answer lengths rather than clue numbers to follow it. For the purposes of this instruction treat the centre barred-off square as an across clue with 1 letter that fits between 28A and 29A in the order of clues.

Step 6. You should now know what to draw and, given which letters you used to get that description, where to draw it.

"On and on" indeed. :)

[perseverer]

Growf - have to say I think your post is perhaps going beyond the gentle hint stage, but that's just my opinion.

This is certainly a puzzle that goes on and on, and leaves you marvelling at how the setters manage to get it all to work out. If I have any criticism, it is that if you try out the results of different interpretations of that three letter word, you may well arrive at the line required without realising that there is a stage beyond the completion of the grid to get the instruction.

[midazolam]

Cluelessjoe - i think you summed it up perfectly - it was a moment of inspiration as i was working on 7 not 14 cells, but i got to the same result

growf - there are plenty of nudges on this thread for people to get there without the need for blatancy. watch out for listenerite...

[Walterloo]

I'm back to full confidence with my original solution after checking it, which makes me appreciate the puzzle all over again. One day I'll be able to create a puzzle like this, probably on the same day I become head of NASA and invent a time machine with the chassis of a moon buggy and disused rocket parts.

[robinruth]

Yes, indeed, we got there, too, with enormous pleasure, aided by the gentle hints and sound advice to read what we were being told in the puzzle by the compiler - that should suffice, I think, for all of us - thanks. What an amazing puzzle. How do such compilers do it and how long does it take? Certainly, all the work should merit more than the meagre pittance a compiler earns.

[lordbadger]

A+ for the crossword this week. Very elegant, and satisfying I thought. I always find it especially rewarding getting almost to the end, but then finding there�s still something else to figure out even with a full grid.

I�m just glad I finished it for myself before reading some of the ridiculously blatant �hints�. Well, one in particular, Growf! Good grief! Just ridiculous! Why not post the entire solution and have done with it?!

[Cruncher]

Yup - a really ingenious puzzle. And yup - I'm so so glad I didn't read the thread before I completed it. Would have really spoiled it for me. I guess the temptation to show off one's own success is just too great...

[cluelessJoe]

... agreed -
Growf, totally unnecessary post - most people seem to have got there nicely (as usual) with the odd gentle nudge, no need at all for your "two-penn-orth"

[rabet]

What an excellent puzzle. But what do you think about the Listener and the Saturday Times crossword competition puzzle being back to back on the same sheet? I seem to remember that there was a minor uproar when this happened after a restyle many years ago, and the complaints resulted in the two being separated again.

[Clamzy]

Walterloo:-
Apologies if I've got this totally wrong but you say that you have full confidence in your original solution. Originally you said your 'line' was confined to the centre square. Surely after reading this thread you can't be satisfied with that.