Listener 4044 - OOOOPPPP by Raich

[turnerjmw]

This week's puzzle is by Raich, who last brought us "Men In Her Life", a George Eliot-themed puzzle two years ago .

Nothing too taxing or out of the ordinary here, though the finish might generate a little discussion. Best of luck

[bobbycollins]

Virtually finished on the train, without the use of Chambers! that certainly puts me in my place.

I found it moderately easy but couldn't have done it without reference books.

Kind of enjoyed it but nothing really to get excited about.

Regards to all

[zita-green]

Careful. Or you'll end up persona non grata, like me.

[robinruth]

Yes, Scorpius, that question of clues that generated the answer without a misprint created added difficulty, I thought. Having to find another definition with a different letter in addition, to give the misprint.

[kwyjibo]

There must have been at least one reference to Chambers before completion.

[emcee]

My only reference in this puzzle was to Google for the quotation.

I apologise if my original comment has been taken the wrong way -- I was just staggered with myself that I could do a puzzle without reference to the 'bible'.

[midazolam]

Delayed start with this one. Not much to say really other than about the title, which should read OOOOP, unless i have missed something.

Talking about using Chambers. I was given my first Chambers Xmas 2007. Before that I was solving the Listener without it. Indeed I finished "Men in her life" and several others that year, but it is a lot quicker with it.

[Speravi]

Raich is also the composer of this week's "Enigmatic Variations" puzzle in the Sunday Telegraph. That offering is also quite benign.

[Deviant]

Going through one of those patches at the moment - 1 letter still missing from last week's (end of 15A) and here, I have a full grid (which does not agree with Midzolam's comment above), but can find no way to get "the required quantity" as RobinRuth put it - perhaps that's down to the wording?

[robinruth]

Tea time Deviant!

And midazolam's comment has me wondering what I have missed. However, I think you just need to 'look around' to get your full quantity. Any help?

[midazolam]

ignore my comment, the title is ok, jumped to the wrong finish

"line" inside "at the right place" = diagram

[shelouse]

I agree that this was much easier than most ..... I got huge chunks of it done at the pub without Chambers, though I used it for confirmation later. I liked the denouement very much. Thanks Raich.

Incidentally, re last week - is the tree in 33a spelt differently in the new Chambers? The one in the grid is obviously 4 letters long, but my (older) Chambers spells it only with the penultimate letter doubled.

[perseverer]

Shelouse - have another look at it. The tree would have the five letters as per Chambers. Think about what is forming the tree's name.

[cluelessJoe]

Sorry Raich, it didn't do a lot for me - though suspect I'm just being a bit grouchy because of the summer weather. Still needed Chambers and - unlike Midazolam - certainly did not mange to crack too many Listeners before I had my copy (maybe no more than half a dozen in my first year, well stranded without Chambers or any of the electronic solving aids available nowadays)

[Clamzy]

Me too CluelessJoe. I wonder if all those who didn't need Chambers, solved Listeners without a dictionary at all?
I have managed the occasional one when on holiday but could usually find some dictionary to check words like 11ac.

[Deviant]

OK thanks RobinRuth. Was close before, but got it now - but such a horrible "presentation" - prefer something a little more symmetrical or neater.

Now just that one from last week to get!

[robinruth]

Deviant - read my prompt higher up then Midazolam's even broader one!
Use Bradford for the definition that is not the obvious one!

[Clamzy]

Deviant - regarding the "presentation", I recall a Listener a while ago where the solver had to draw large letters occupying more than one cell.
A four letter word (say) would occupy sixteen cells. This approach may have helped with a "neater" grid.

[midazolam]

If anyone can solve a Listener without anything then i think they are a genius. Before Chambers I had to resort to internet based solving aids and dictionaries, like wordmatcher at www.quinapalus.com and dictionary.reference.com (the former i still use regularly). Even with them I was only completing 1 in 4. Luckily by seeing the light and getting Chambers, this year the roll has yet to end.

[bobbycollins]

May I say that my earlier comment about the lack of use of Chambers honestly wasn't meant to be sarky.

......anyway, I don't think I've even ever solved Mephisto, Azed, EV etc without its use.

[Deviant]

RobinRuth, Midzolam, thanks again. Didn't even register the help first time around - must get more sleep!

Have got it now - as usual I'd considered the solution but discarded it without checking out the elements properly I really should know better by now!