Listener 4076: Labour by Elint

[midazolam]

Tough debut by Elint this week. Very good surface readings with definitions not always directly linked in Chambers, which I felt made it tougher. I was only mentioning a few weeks back that with the available gadgets and the fixation that every word has to be defined directly in Chambers, the Listener is becoming solvable faster, but I am proved wrong this week. 9 across and 29 down I liked a lot.

I was lucky to get the 2 words about half way through which helped me on the way. Thanks Elint

[jamesah]

All done apart from finding the elusive 8-letter word. Having spent several
hours trying to see it I would find any subtle hints most helpful. Having some idea of the shape of the word in the grid would be really useful!

[bobbycollins]

jamesah, it's in a conventional "Listener" position, and was new to me, but as has been noted, the Chamber's definition wraps the whole thing up.

[bobbycollins]

sorry, I meant Chamber's etymology

bc

[ziller]

Keep searching jamesah.......it's there!

I've found the word to be highlighted (highlit?) and finished 99% of it, but am really struggling with 27dn. I think I've found the extra word (it defines 16ac, right?), but would welcome some deciphering of definition & wordplay. Just short of the two unchecked cells; pretty sure my four intersecting answers are correct. Chambers Word Wizwad gives three possibilities.

Thanks.

[daagg]

ziller, your theory about the extra word is correct. You should consider why "integrated circuits" is (are?) plural.

[daagg]

ziller, I've just used Word Wizard, and I only find 2 possibilities with my 4 checked letters.

[ziller]

Thanks daagg..........all done. I made a mistake and had the last letter of 39ac wrong, and can now see which extra word defines it. Tough puzzle, but glad to have completed it.

[jamesah]

Those hints were just a bit too subtle for me! There are too many conventional Listener positions- straight lines, diagonals, circular, squares, rectangles, V-shapes etc. I thought that I had tried all of them but I'll keep going for a few more hours. It is frustrating having solved all the clues and having done all the hard work not to be able to see something which appears to be obvious to many others.

[perseverer]

jamesah - you need second thoughts! I couldn't find the word because it isn't in my (old) edition of Chambers but as I said earlier Google came to my rescue.

[Ruthrobin]

Jamesah, try highlighting the eight words that have 'suffered' then join them up by drawing a line via the centre (remember, you are looking for eight letters). As you said, Listener words tend to be in straight lines or diagonal ones through the centre.

[Philoctetes]

Ruthrobin - are you sure that's a useful hint? It's sure as hell confused me.
But, Jamesah, you still have over a week if you want to submit, longer if you don't. I'e lost count of the number of times the final PDM has occurred just before the last post on Wednesday (and, sadly, just afterwards)

[jamesah]

Found it! Certainly, a very obscure word. I can now say that this was a very enjoyable puzzle with some very good clueing with a few & lits which I always enjoy.

[rognov]

Yes, agreed, a neat and fairly satisfying puzzle. However, I didn't successfully find all the extra words in the Down clues, so I failed to get the two names (as well as failing to find all 8 definitions for the affected Across entries). To that extent, then, the puzzle was only fairly satisfying. For me, it would have been wholly satisfying if my completion of the puzzle had also depended in some way on resolving what I have failed to resolve. But a minor quibble.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, indeed, Rognov. It was certainly possible to complete without those. However, you should be able to find the names by thinking about the key word at 25ac - look up a few of those - the ones you need appear in the first few Google offers! Eliminating those will leave you candidates for the extra words and you will have the pleasure of resolving all of it.

[Philoctetes]

This might be an insight into the difference between setting and solving. I suspect that the logical progression in the setters mind was "Find the missing words - find the two names - work out the connection for 25ac - find highlighted word". But I solved it by "Work out what was going on before getting it all - find 25ac - use that to identify extra words in unsolved clues - spend ages looking for highlighted word - have brainwave and use previous information to search online dictionary". We can be an undisciplined lot, we solvers.

[Deviant]

I thought that the missing words were much better integrated into the clues than they usually are, but that some were a bit short - I mean 2 letter words, what's that about?!

I did my usual trick of ignoring the theme to start with until I had enough to guess what may be going on - entering answers of the correct length in pencil nearly always helps.

It was nice to be able to send this one off on Monday.
Enjoyable & very satisfactory Listener - and as other people have said, at least the hidden word wasn't too hard to find, even if it was obscure & you *knew* you had the right answer if you looked in Chambers.

[bobbycollins]

Philoctetes, couldn't agree more. I have test solved several puzzles for Zero in the past, and he is way out of my league. - and a very nice man. I can barely muster a decent clue for the AZED comp let alone compile a puzzle. As another example, I have just completed this week's EV offering from Samuel, which was another (to me) awesome construction. So huge thanks to all of the compilers (setters?) who give us so much pleasure.

Deviant - these things are so devious that i always use pencil!!!

[AndrewG-S]

This is my second week of trying to finish the Listener (managed last weeks after much brain ache). Contrary to the above I found a few of the suffering across entries this led quickly to 25ac and then all the extra words in the down clues quickly resolved themselves. So I have the thematic part, but still can't finish the top left hand corner or find the hidden word. I dont own Chambers which may be part of the problem!

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, Philoctetes, your description of your solving method more-or-less echoes mine, though I rarely spend long looking for whatever has to be highlighted. Knowing roughly where to look always helps, I think.

[bobbycollins]

I don't wish to outstay my welcome on this week's thread, but I must advise Andrew that Chamber's is an absolute necessity for these beasts. So much of wordplay is taken verbatim from said volume that one often knows the correct answer with certainy before having completely deciphered the clue.

In view of the apparent uncertainty of the future of Chamber's publictions I would buy a copy post haste - buying from Amazon rather than the High Street will save you about £15