Listener 4087 Double Shuffling and Dealing by Auctor

[Ruthrobin]

We have found the clues a step up in difficulty from previous ones and had to go to the Internet for the quotation. Certainly not a puzzle for newcomers this week!

[Zabadak]

Well done you two. I'm inclined to agree on clue analysis: these are tricky, for the most part, even when you've understood how the affected clues work. Getting the Shakespeare helps a bit: once you know the quotation, you at least know what the remaining missing letters are.
I've seen better ways of putting the first sentence of the rubric, which could suggest the grid entries have a letter missing too.
I would be interested to know if the latest Chambers has 28d. CD 2003 does not. It slowed me down a lot, not least because I thought I'd eliminated all the A's but one, and put that in the first square of 28: there's a lot of weird words out there when you start looking on that basis! In a tribute to double acts on this board, it was my other half who came up with the right answer.
A fine crossword with a wide range and a satisfying conclusion, respect to Auctor.

[patmark2]

Chamberd 2008 does have 28dn, Zabadak.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, 28d is in the latest Chambers (as are lots of similar ones). I went through all the stages you have - struggling with the first line of the rubric for just the same reason (convinced that the grid entries had to have a missing letter) and hunting for that one on the 2003 CD Rom, as well as attempting to use a floating A and finding a weirdo word. It was certainly a fine and extremely challenging crossword.

[cluelessJoe]

Well done you guys, very impressive. It's late, so I'm leaving this one to finish tomorrow - quote identified, but bottom right still to complete to get my last two B's (and place two final A's as I know what letters they are). Hope it's really the home straight.

[AHearer]

Agreed, trickier than recent ones. I didn't find the rubric confusing, but that was perhaps because I was so certain of the first clue I solved that there was only one possible reading. I did wrong-foot myself for a while by thinking I had located a globally affected definition without sorting out the word-play properly -- it was, indeed, globally affected, but I'd misidentified where.

[starwalker]

I was initially mislead by the first sentence until I got my first definite answer.
Completed it late last night, but was unhappy about some of the globally affected. Checking again in the warm light of day and everything is fine.
Agreed that this is not one for a beginner.

[midazolam]

agree with you all. tricky one this week before the numerical listener next week.

very confusing start as i thought i was looking for e.g. 8 letter answers and 7 letter entries. I think without (which is also the grid entry) it would have made better sense. Despite this minor quibble i very much enjoyed this, my first Auctor puzzle.

Clever grid construction to include every letter of the quotation in grid order as well as 3 cluing "gimmicks" in one. I had to smile at the first row - not my cup of tea!Thanks Auctor

[cluelessJoe]

Well, grid finshed quite quickly, but I can't yet fathom the supposedly relevant play and author, so I'll revisit that bit after a break. Not so sure I liked this one unless there's something which has passed me by. Some of the clueing is refreshingly challenging but I don't think other bits work too well - maybe it is too easy to work out grid enties just from wordplay without having to worry about the affected definitions. I have still not bothered to pin down all local and global happenings as I don't think it's strictly necessary (except for true completion's sake), and maybe that's what I don't particularly like about it.

[daagg]

I got off to one of my slowest starts, with most clues making no sense at all, until I finally twigged what was going on. Then things were a lot easier. I agree that the first sentence of the preamble was rather ambiguous, only being resolved with the first entry. I ended up with a few spelling mistakes in the quotation, although I am now happy with all the wordplay.

Unfortunately, like cJ, I have hit a brick wall with the final step. There are far, far too many 4-word anagrams :-(

[Zabadak]

Hi Midazolam - I'm a mite confused over "grid order". Are we talking about the "B" quotation, because though all the letters are there, it's not in any order I can see, or am I missing something?
CJ: I kind of agree, you can go by wordplay alone, but I did the moving and matching just to make sure, which was no big deal. The author's play is decidedly relevant even if it doesn't change anything in the final entry.

[Zabadak]

daarg: yup, Internet Anagram Server says there's over 8,000 4 word anagrams even if you don't include obscure words. However, there's some fairly probable quotation words amongst those letters, and if you refine your request by insisting on one of them , it makes the search a whole lot easier. This is the URL if not known: http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/ a very useful site!

[daagg]

OK, found it - sometimes you just need the confidence to plough on!

[dr b]

Hi all; just checking in. I was only able to turn to this one this morning as I have had house guests and was running an airport shuttle/being an affable host all day yesterday. I've been at it for about 90 minutes and am glad to see that everyone thinks this is a toughie! I have the "admission of guilt", a half-filled grid and a pretty strong suspicion about the way the 18 defs are 'affected.' I will forge ahead with some confidence that this one is doable.

[bellabee]

Finished the grid. Found the author, the work & the quote but the quote requires an extra E. The quote seems to require 15 letters and I can only count 14 Bs. This is in the newspaper. Could you tell me if the online version is different please?

[patmark2]

The online version has 15 Bs, but so does my copy of the newspaper!

[bellabee]

Is the 4th letter down from 7 down a B? I've scrawled over this cell. Thanks.

[patmark2]

Yes, it is

[bellabee]

Thanks patmark. I'll try to be more careful in future!

[Roundhillbob]

Only just got to this as I have a house guest. Glad to see the experts found it tricky as I am really struggling to get started. I usually need a couple of read-throughs to get on the setter's wavelength. Will persevere. I am sure the sun shine will help.

[dr b]

Well, that's squared away. It took longer than it should have for the meaning of "globally affected" to sink in, but once it did the finish line was clearly in sight. Next week a number puzzle, eh? Can't wait.