Listener 4090 Refrain by Dysart

[Ruthrobin]

An evocative theme from our childhood this week and some very ingenious clues. Tougher than last week, we thought.

[Eril]

Agreed DrB - 1ac was a very nice clue. Anyone had any thoughts about the link between the title and the word 'optionally' (pace qwerty99)?

[Zabadak]

Hm. It'd be pretty mean if the title was the indicator of which option we should prefer, and entries (like mine) which included the word were therefore wrong. Optionally should mean just that, you can put it in if you like, though why there's a choice at all is anyone's guess. I suppose people might not be able to work out the discarded word, but then the puzzle isn't complete, is it?

[teuchter2]

I too had a late start, but think I have the grid finished. My problem is that I have not found all the clashes. I am missing the third and final letters of the title of the alternative source. This may or may not impact on my ability to work out the transmutation. I was wondering if it might be an anagram of the three missing words, but I don't see that it is possible. Am I looking for a single word, or is it a phrase finishing at the start of the trail? I have a possible three word phrase, but it doesn't read very naturally, so I suspect it's not what I am needing.

[Zabadak]

Hi Teuchter. Try googling the song: it'll get you the answer you'ree looking for on around the second page. THat shpould also help idenfitying the remaining clashes.
On the end of the trail, try treating the lats three words of the song as a crossword clue (though without a definintion) you should find the result in plain sight. 1 down doesn't need it, which incidently I thought was a rather good and accurate spot by Dysart.

[Zabadak]

That's you're, That, should and last. Fat finger syndrome strikes again, though it wasn't me on ITV HD when England scored, honest.

[Zabadak]

And one more: sorry Teuchter, I misread the first part of your question. Second part still applies, though.

[Clamzy]

I've left the optional space under the grid blank. Given my propensity for typos I figure this to be my best course.
At the end of the meander I found a treasure trove descending vertically and then turning right at the bottom. Although seemingly thematical it didn't fit with the preamble saying 1down didn't need it - just the opposite in fact and no penny drop.

[dr b]

Clamzy, that was the first thing I saw as well, but then I thought, well, everyone can use some of that now and then, so I kept looking.

[Ruthrobin]

Zabadak, I thought your suggestion of the significance of the title would be too mean even for the Listener to conceive. It would certainly cause a furore! I liked Clamzy's find.

[Zabadak]

Indeed, that's quite cute, and if you continue right, at a squeeze you get the other thing 1dn lacks, or at least a three letter word that can be so interpreted. Not the "right" answer, though (teehee).

[JackDeCrow]

Thought that was pretty hard - certainly seemed to take a while to get going. Did enjoy the transmutation at the end, and my only guess at why the alternative title is optional lies in the first meaning (In Chambers) of the word itself - leaving it out sort of defines it! Still wrestling with the wordplay to 30a, though, even though there is only one possible answer.

[qwerty99]

JackDeCrow, re 30 across. I parsed this as: Jacques, the director, being accommodated by a segment of the compass, with a superfluous i.

[JackDeCrow]

Thanks qwerty99 - that's a great relief. Hadn't thought of him - had convinced myself I was looking for a Scottish fellow. So near and yet so far!

[Zabadak]

Not too thrilled about that superfluous i, but I don't have a much better answer. Mine involves booth Eastern and quarter supplying a letter each at the beginning and end, and the remaining letters being understood as a director, in this case of temperature. But as I say, I don't like that much either. No other word fits, so I guess we can rest easy, if a little bemused - not unusual for this thing!

[Clamzy]

The "i" is the extra letter and Jacques is the director. The other 3 surrounding letters represent a quarter on the compass - no problem.

[qwerty99]

Zabadak - I think your interpretation of 30 across is somewhat fanciful; it doesn't really add up.
I'm still realy intrigued by the "optional" thing. I've never known such an equivocal instruction in a Listener crossword preamble, and now that my submission is in the post, I am starting to think that I have missed something! I put the Alternative Title in anyway

[qwerty99]

And when I wrote realy, I really meant really

[jacinth]

After a rather extended career break, I returned to work today and I'm not sure how much time I'll have for these in the future - but I'll do my best! The World Cup isn't helping either. This one's all done bar one down answer and four of the clashes.
Very enjoyable though, good PDMs.

[teuchter2]

Thanks Zabadak. I didn't look at replies until today. I've now worked out what I'm looking for, but haven't actually found it yet. I wasn't too convinced about my answers to 39d or 41d so have probably got something wrong there, but will persevere.

[Zabadak]

For Qwerty99 and Clamzy: my abject apologies. This week I've managed to be fat headed as well as fat fingered. I had entered the only possible answer without full undrstanding, and had forgotten the extra letter bit. I'd still like it if Eastern and quarter provided two parts of the wordplay, rather than just one, but it doesn't matter.