Listener 4103: Annual Turnover by Ragtag

[midazolam]

Fairly straightforward debut by Ragtag this week. The basics of the theme we have seen in a listener a couple of years back as well as in the EV. I was wondering what the clashes had to do with it, but it's all confirmed in Chambers. I am surprised this aspect of the puzzle has not come up before.

[BlackHugh]

I've posted mine now as well - I never got all the extra letters either but managed to work out the phrase! My one worry is that what I entered in the clash squares would not normally be described as a symbol and I certainly cannot understand what it might have to do with Robbie Williams!

[midazolam]

It never dawned on me that there is an ambiguity with the "symbol". It probably would have been better to say "the clashes need changing to a symbol and connected appropriately with lines". This representation in books etc is not "Robbie Williams" and so without the lines, as it is here, I can't see why it would be marked wrong using either symbol.

[contendo]

I don't think any lines are necessary. They're certainly not asked for.

[midazolam]

...so without the lines, as it is here...

[BlackHugh]

contendo - think midazolam meant that adding lines would have made it a bit clearer which symbol was required

I can see now which one would have been better :-(

[daagg]

Of course the title is a bit of a double entendre, as it refers rather well to movement up there as well as down here.

[Ruthrobin]

I'm sorry, I seem to have stirred a rare can of worms (or whatever the equivalent is in the context). It seems to me that the Chambers' definition of a symbol (an emblem ... that which by custom or convention represents something else) includes both the childish 'Robbie Williams' representation, which, 'by custom' represents what we are talking about, and the official 'conventional' representation which is 'simpler'. To reject either would be fearsomely unfair.

[midazolam]

I never spotted the "L" either. It took me only a couple of minutes to work out that the grid can easily be made using largest, grume, dipole, items, tite, ten, pleura and reest. So I wonder why ragtag did not stick with it?

(These fake answers should not help solvers and if used will probably confuse more than anything)

[BlackHugh]

hmm - I notice that contrary to my instructions to the teenagers (what is new there?) the crossword has not actually been posted yet. I shall resist the the temptation to open it and replace the symbol with what, after this discussion, is more probably the intended one. I'll rely on RuthRobin's expectation of both being accepted.

[trux]

Neat, Midazolam .... and would have been superior, IMHO - but let this not spoil what was nonetheless a well-constructed puzzle ...

[trux]

...and you still have to adjust SLEEVA .... n'est-ce pas ?

[Mysterons]

I think midazolam would have changed that to pleura ?

Good point re the self-adhesive items ruthrobin, but we run that risk these days every time we attach a stamp to the envelope !

[Philoctetes]

Off topic I know, but I have just started having this thread flagged up in Firefox as a "badware" site. Anyone else having this?

[Zabadak]

Now here's an interesting conjecture. Spotting the possible modification at the top adds an extra clash, and an extra symbol, in very (very) roughly the right place too. If on the other hand, you also apply the other transformation to the top line, it ends up in exactly the right place. Doo doo doo doo...

[Zabadak]

Mind you, of course, nothing else fits then.

[AndrewG-S]

Yes I am getting a badware warning too but only when I use Safari on my Mac, just started yesterday. The google diagnostics page on the site does not look too horrendous but this is not really my area of expertise.

[Clamzy]

I am getting the warning in Chrome.
Incidentally Zab, the best of the seven is only 2nd magnitude and therefore Robby is appropriate but I think maybe unrecognised by JEG:-)

[Zabadak]

Clamzy: are you suggesting that JEG might not be a fan? I think we should be told 8-)

[Clamzy]

No - I'm suggesting he's never heard of him:-)
Maybe Marilyn Monroe or Sir Laurence would ring a bell.

[Zabadak]

How about Peter the Great, Ivan the Terrible, or Nicholas the Mildly Dyslexic?