Listener 4109 Not a Black and White Decision

[AndrewG-S]

Grid complete except for one cell and 18 clashes identified, but stuck at the moment as to what to do next. Enjoyable so far

[dead-eye]

managed to find 16a in the BRB under the english equivalent.

[thebuzz999]

The preamble implies that bad decisions will force you to have fewer than 18 clashes. I think it is a flaw that there is a perfectly valid fill with 18 clashes that is different than the correct one...if you are unfortunate enough to do it that way and think you must have it right because you hit the magic number, 18, you are going to struggle mightily to find the 28 cells to fill.

[Ruthrobin]

I would say that is not a flaw but a stroke of genius. I wish I could set one like that!

[Rogue-Elfe]

Hi there. Just completed this with Bellabee to thank for the rather dubiously dubbed 'PDM', since I'd never heard of this before. I was on completely the wrong lines as there is another apparantly related word you can get by resolving clashes in the 8th row (as a whole), and I was looking for a popular phrase; ah but that's a ho...
Agree totally with most people. Clashes should occur naturally without having to be forced into place, and resolution should not have exceptions. Could go on but that would spoil it for others who haven't yet had the 'pleasure' of obtaining a solution.

[x_word_fan]

I simply don't see a problem - surely not all crosswords have to follow the same pattern - I had "the wrong 18" but realised I must have made a mistake. A very clever puzzle.

[contendo]

I'm staring at two different grids, each with 18 clashes, and nothing is leaping out at me. I'm slowly losing the will to live.

[serpentinew]

Am in a similar position to you contendo - nothing has leapt out at me, either. I've been trying to link the ambiguity to some hidden words when applying the rules, but so far nothing sensible.

[trux]

PDM is reasonable : think "colour"(s) and read Beelebee's thread carefully .....

[teuchter2]

Very little time this weekend, but the footie was good! I think I have the grid with 18 clashes, but need some time and quiet to consider what to do next. I may persevere, but am not particularly enjoying this one.

[cluelessJoe]

well teuchter2, I'm afraid I am in the 'underwhelmed' camp this week - I did persevere, and did not find it as rewarding as I originally anticipated. More of a grind, with a decent portion of non-words to round it off. Probably fun to construct though!

[daagg]

I'm clearly Mr Dense this week. I have rearranged answers to obtain two grids with 18 clashes, but I have no idea what happens next. I see some vague "colours" but nothing worth pursuing. I am feeling a bit "fox and grapes" at the moment!

[serpentinew]

Daagg - Wish I could help you but I'm still looking at the two permutations with the 3 variable rows, the 6 fixed rows and the 3 interchangeable ones. Wish I knew the form the 28 letters was taking as there are many colours about red, green, blue, brown for instance. Been staring at a "completed" clue filled grid off and on since Friday night!

[jamesah]

Having trouble with the endgame again for the third time in 4 weeks. I've got 6 clashes but there seem to be two alternative clashes in one row. If it is not giving too much away could someone be kind enough to tell me whether the first letter in the left hand 11 down is near the beginning or the end of the alphabet?

[serpentinew]

Jamesah - Beginning

[jamesah]

Thanks Serpentinew.

[serpentinew]

The light has dawned - words fail me. Or polite ones anyway. Certainly an unambiguous end game. Full marks for a neat construction and convoluted preamble but not an enjoyable solve. I suspect I would have got there earlier if I had read and understood the vice versa part of the preamble and not assumed that what's valid on one side can't be valid on the other.

[aldana]

Visitors, children and dog having left, I now have a complete grid, 18 clashes and not an idea what to do next. Husband also flummoxed. About to concede defeat. I hope drb has managed to stop laughing by now!

[Clamzy]

I'm afraid that I'm with cJ and dr b on this one - none words and word searches also leave me not very whelmed:-) I'm pleased to hear serpentinew and others found the end game unambiguous as I still can't make it eighteen clashes, let alone two alternate sets.

[turast]

I am lagging far behind. I got to a completed grid with 6 clashes very quickly (for me). That is where I am at the moment, because I just can't bear the thought of starting on the laborious task of switching answers, constructing different versions etc. However, like a poker player who has already paid too much into the pot I cannot pull out now. I now turn to the rubber end of the pencil!

[jamesah]

Thanks again to Serpentinew for his earlier help but what does he mean by 3 interchangeable rows? I thought that I had the 18 clashes but no colours seem to be emerging to confirm the correct choices. Have I got the wrong 18? If so, I have no idea where the right 18 might be. Very frustrating this one with a preamble which I find less than helpful.