Listener Crossword 4116 - A(nother) Game of 1 by Glow-worm

[starwalker]

Although I am nowhere near finished, the grid-fill seems fairly straightforward. Despite the very long preamble, I am not expecting any major problems, so please can we try to keep any hints to an absolute minimum.

[Alekhine]

Still not impressed, BlackHugh.

Evidence of one or more 'well-known' individuals is more than outweighed by the strong likelihood that most people will not have come across that as a Christian name.

A well-known actor versus about 6 billion others.

Hmmm.

[Mysterons]

contendo - regarding 16a, this is one of the 9 across clues where a letter from 1 replaces one from 22 - it is indeed a vowel transposition.

[BlackHugh]

Alekhine - I take your point. He was the only example of the name I have come across.

[contendo]

Light has finally dawned, thanks to a little help from a certain friend. Like Tilbee in his first entry, I had assumed that replacement letters are those in the wordplay, not those in the grid, but this is wrong and lead me to an incorrect 39ac. All clear now, but what an ambiguous preamble and what a strange game of 1dn with play occurring out of order. Thanks Mysterons for clearing up the point about 16ac. I had inadvertently missed out one of the 9 clues with replacement letters.

[Scorpius]

Contendo, I think there is only one way of interpreting the preamble regarding the replacement letters. One sentence tells us that in the wordplay (and therefore the answer given by the wordplay) a letter from 1 replaces one from 22. The next sentence refers to the replacement letter. Surely there is no ambiguity.

I thought the puzzle good fun, though I did think the device used to give us the necessary information to decide which of the players to highlight was a bit arbitrary and messy.

Re the earlier discussion as to whether to highlight the jumbled sequence or a name with the letters in the correct sequence, I've only just realized that there are more than 2 ways of tracing one of the names and 2 ways of tracing the other, so nothing in the grid resolves the identity crisis.

[x_word_fan]

It must be me but I can't see a problem here - the winning 5 letters in a straight line jumble can be sorted into 2 different names - hence the identity crisis.

[segue]

JackDeCrow - I read "points to" as "points to and is distinct from"

Jogler - is the definition of éclair a nod to its etymology? Even more impressive if so

Have now identified a dog-leg or W for the winner - but given the shape of 39 I think I will stick with an anagram - the same W shape where the loser is gives a Shakespearean bit-part even less well-known than the famous actor mentioned above - not what was intended I suspect

[contendo]

Scorpius - maybe I am missing something here, but you say "a letter from 1 replaces one from 22. The next sentence refers to the replacement letter. Surely there is no ambiguity." I would have said that the letter doing the replacement was the replacement letter, but it's actually the letters being replaced, i.e. those that appear in the grid, which have to be coded into a 13 or a 40, or that's the way I've ended up doing it and I seem to have reached the same conclusion as everyone else.

[Mysterons]

Not quite contendo - the letters which are replaced (in the answers to the 'other clues') do appear in the central 3x3 - it is the replacement letter from 1 down which is encoded.

[Scorpius]

Contendo, if you have reached the right conclusion there's no problem obviously, but I read the mechanics of the operation differently. To avoid giving away specific examples, let's take a hypothetical one. If the wordplay to one of the clues results in a C from 1 replacing the A from 22, then C is the replacement letter (replacing the correct letter for the answer). Since C is a consonant, a 13 would be written to the right of the oblique in the cell containing an A.

If you code the letters actually in the grid in the way you suggest, it seems to me you'll end up with a wrong solution giving 2 39's.

[bellabee]

segue - is the corresponding w you refer to actually an m [a bit part in twelfth night]? because the actor's name is also a shakespearian character [a shepherd] and if you can find him in the right place in w form that would clinch it for me. as to contendo's reading of the preamble i'm unsure what would go on the right side of the oblique, and to what purpose. agree with mysterons and scorpious on this - there would be an unplayable surfeit of 13s otherwise.

[contendo]

OK Mysterons & Scorpio, I'm with you now. I started off by substituting the letters of 1dn for those of 22dn in the order in which they appear in the answers rather than as substituted in the clues, so as this didn't work out I went down another blind alley which, as you point out leads to 2 possible 39s. Maybe I should take up knitting.

[bellabee]

by the way the highlighting of the w and the m tempted me for some time as the 'name' is male and suggests 'an identity crisis' but it's obviously not in the appendix and it would be just too left field - even for the listener. so i'm sticking with the boring line [unless segue can actually w the actor\shepherd].

[teuchter2]

I think I have got it now, having been a bit confused by the names being anagrammed. Thank you for all your condolences. My husband was always totally clueless about the Listener crossword, so my chances of completing are just the same. I'm afraid his 'innings'. was only 62

[bellabee]

that is very young teuchter2, and after a long illness. i hope you have some help getting through these coming months- it is a particularly difficult time of year.

[Archie1962]

Yes, I'm there now, I was looking in the wrong place before. And I finally twigged what the identity crisis meant.

[Rhone]

Enjoyable, especially after Pieman and Sabre (both tantalising, but ended up defeating me). However I agree with most that the conclusion is a bit messy.

The game brings back memories of simpler pleasures!

[turast]

I've finally limped in (late as ever), having solved and submitted the whole thing without access to a computer or even the BRB (I've been visiting my mum). All I can say is, thank God I wasn't able to look at AB. Dog-legs, Ws, Ms, phantom other names, Shakespearean characters, total misreadings and of the preamble: all of these would have scared me off completely. Unable too google the first name of a well known player who often looked like she could use a long lie down on herself, I spent a little while looking for the 5 letters INZIL. I admit it was expecting rather a lot from the thematics. Nice to be back after missing the last three listeners because they just looked so boring.

[turast]

As Harry Hill might say. "Now I like the bloke who played Hamish the groom, and I like the woman who sang "Just loving you", despite her overuse of mascara. But which is better? There's only one way to find out! Now where is that bit of paper torn from the back of my maths exercise book and a pencil? Hang on, who's this joining in? Oh no it's that rather attractive woman who's really good with kids and is married to Terry off of "The Bill".

[Clamzy]

Let's make the century again this week:-)