Listener 4126 Arthurian Legend by Corvettes

[dr b]

Wow. Absolutely brilliant. I tried to rotate the rings mentally, but got out the scissors after a few minutes. Then half my letters were upside down, so I printed out a new grid and re-filled it. An incredible feat of construction, I thought. Difficult but lots of fun.

[tilbee]

Well done PP et al. But surprised at the eagerness of everyone to got out scissors and sellotape. Surely easier to rotate the contents as required by the preamble ?

[Clamzy]

I agree with AndrewG that this is a strong contender for top honours and would add that
it would get my vote for the best ever (in my time) debut Listener. Some of the witty clues were in the Sabre realm, and like others I am still pondering 2 wordplay.
Many thanks Corvettes.

[perseverer]

No arguments from me about the quality of this puzzle, though Phi's Heart would also be a contestant for top of the year so far. I wonder if Corvettes is actually a joint effort from existing setters - Trev is hiding in the centre.

[dr b]

I'd agree that Heart was this puzzle's equal. And it's not even March yet! Who knows what wonders await.

tilbee, I got out the scissors because cutting and pasting is fun, and since my kids are now 22 and 18 I get very few opportunities to cut and paste in a socially acceptable manner. Sellotape is a new word for me; over here we mostly call it scotch tape because the main brand sold here is called Scotch (a division of 3M). So "scotch tape", regardless of who actually produces it, has become a common noun like xerox, kleenex (tissue) or polaroid. How fascinating is that??

[Clamzy]

Drb We call our vacuum cleaners Hoovers.

[dr b]

We had a president named Hoover. Weird.

[trux]

....and a dam. Weirder still

[dr b]

I never could understand why we named a dam after a vacuum cleaner.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, I wondered whether this was created by a group of setters (with the s plural on the name, too!) I think retrospect will be needed to see how it compares with Phi's impressive 'heart'. I think this one broke more cluing rules - perhaps lacked the flawless polish of Heart's clues.

[Clamzy]

I agree RR that what speravi brought to my attention has merit. I also agree with the sentiments about Heart, but that's the standard we have come to expect from a setter of his calibre, whereas if this really was a debut..........?

dr b Not only do we name a vacuum cleaner after a president we use the term as a verb. Yes really, I did Hoover the carpet this morning (with my Miele).

[abns]

Interestingly the "Notes to Setters" section of the Listener website says the following:

"The accessibility of thematic information is carefully considered...The vetters wish to reaffirm that the availability of thematic information at a web site is not a sufficient justification of accessibility...Setters should avoid themes of an extremely parochial nature. "

Looks like this was a major relaxation of the principles, although I for one am glad they did so...

[bobbycollins]

How thick do I feel? completed the grid Saturday afternoon, but can see only one misprint, so have no chance of lining them up!

Really enjoyed it so far but don't see me making the final leap.

ho-hum

[JackDeCrow]

worth persevering with, bc, as you can probably tell from the comments so far - presumably you must have a few where the wordplay doesn't quite seem to fit?

[teuchter2]

I have had other distractions, but a finished grid, and some misprints, but not all. Im not sure about 2d either, but will persevere as usual.

[jamesah]

A wonderful construction, how did they do it? 1ac held me up for a long time despite getting the wordplay straightaway. I can rarely cope with scissors so I just printed out a new grid which seemed simpler.

[borealis]

Clamzy, perseverer, Ruthrobin & abns - I think you may find that this crossword was far from a debut; I would guess at three involved (maybe four?). I doubt if Sabre is one. If you have found the theme, examine the title. You may have to move right a bit to see it. I am not sure that they would need to worry much about their principles!

Not mentioned in the preamble are inclusions in the clues of all relevant items manufactured by the dedicatee - wonderful to find and check these. If you haven't found these - go looking. You've missed a nice pdm. There are also some other references which I think must also be relevant - and I'm not even sure I've found all that's there.

Wonderful.

[Ruthrobin]

Thank you Borealis - your suspicions ran along the same lines as mine but your extra insight was a delightful eye-opener. Yes, I think we have a set of familiar figures as the producers of this gem.

[Clamzy]

Thanks Borealis for bringing my feet firmly back to earth, naivety parachute in tatters. It now seems plain that such quality would be produced by experienced setters (or should that be a v?).
I can see some proper nouns in the clues which now make more sense, but don't know the dedicatee apart from what I found on Google, and therefore wouldn't find the items he manufactured.

[tenflags]

Rear-gunner Tenflags late to the party and struggling as usual. I'm only half way through the grid fill although woke up with a PDM on the theme - but whilst it will make the end game straight forward (if I can get there) it's not much help to get there - well not yet anyway. Glad I popped in as it looks like the struggle might be worth it.