Listener Crossword 4128 Ringtone by Trev

[Zabadak]

Evening all. Once again I find myself staring at a completed grid and a completed instruction, the former quite straightforward, the latter requiring a leap of imagination that so far eludes me. All the words in the instruction individually make sense, collectively they don't - yet. Currently I'm hazarding "anything at all" or possibly "annoying" as reasonable entries in the box at the bottom. Regards and best wishes to everyone.

[abns]

I typed the answer and title into google and got a Gertrude stein ringtone. Looks like more checking is needed.

[JackDeCrow]

Currently with you on Gertrude Stein abns!
20A still bothering me too, as is 16A.

[abns]

I still get Gertrude Stein on my second check through. This is clearly a deliberate cross-reference to Listener 4085 and provides the rationale for the answer to be entered below the grid.

I found the crossword very satisfying overall but was disappointed there was no clue for "uphurls"

[bobbycollins]

Ho-hum, dr b, the result was out by just one digit – we lost 1-2 (in front of 2,500). The last time that Crawley Town were in the North West of England they were beaten 1-0 by the mighty Manchester United (in front of nearly 80,000!!!!)

Apologies for going off topic.

[Speravi]

To say that the title has only one anagram gives more away than I did. Any significance that the anagram has is only apparent when the solver has not only completed the grid, but also has the extra and missing letters from the wordplay. The news that there are such things as anagrams and that one can try to apply the concept to a crossword title can hardly be news to the followers of a thread such as this. This is in stark contrast to shouting 'sudoku' in the context of a numerical puzzle where treating the grid as subject to the rules of that pastime would be a significant aid to rapid completion of the grid and, more importantly, reveals the kernel of the PDM.

My comment, I think, would not appear connected to the gimmick until all but the endgame was already completed, and, to a solver at that stage, my revelation that I habitually look for anagrams of titles would hardly be an aid to a solver of that level of familiarity with sophisticated puzzles. For the avoidance of doubt, all I intended to convey to solvers who had already successfully completed the puzzle was that reconnaissance can be helpful. I submit that to equate my remark with the sudoku revelation is untenable.

[Clamzy]

My friends will know that I am more relaxed than some of you about hints on here. In this case (IMO) speravi didn't reveal anything earth shattering. The setter has guided us towards it, and how many things can one get from a one-word title? Speravi's observation was pretty obvious.
Yes abns, I too didn't get Bollywood when following the path of AndrewGS and Tilbee, but a friend had a longer list than me. It appears my assumption that I was familiar with all the "particulars" was wrong. Even more checking needed.

[tilbee]

Realise now that depending on order of search title / entry, and which particular link you select you can find any almost any artist/style you want including Gertrude Stein and Bollywood. This is clearly a very lucrative business.

Guess the organic search algorithm may change over time, but re-entering my original solution followed by title, the first link I now see connects to "JM and Friends".

[Clamzy]

J M and friends it is - thanks Tilbee.

[Zabadak]

Just to throw another spanner in the works, it simply isn't true to say there's only one anagram of the title. Doesn't the Duke of Wellington make a plausible entrant as the Iron Gent?! Neon grit might be a lesser known solid form of the noble gas, neon girt would mean surrounded by neon (that might change a few answers) and my favourite tipple, the tenor gin is something I'd like to be treated to. Like I said, it's (and we're assuming this) a cryptic clue, or part of one, with no checkers and only an oblique definition. And there are many ways of entering even the most likely answer. I'd quite like it if the title was adorn, myself - much more satisfying.
This one might turn out to be more fun in the post match interviews than in the contest itself.

[mullingar]

I've been away for the weekend and so won't get round to this week's puzzle until Wednesday probably. However I did take some very old Listeners (which I'd cut out for later use) with me. I was wondering if any of you might remember them. One was Bill of Fare which was a real struggle. Though I found many of the clue answers I couldn't enter any with any confidence because of an impenetrable preamble(It was impossible to make sense of one sentence!) and the fact that they were all potentially jumbled. In the end I gave up. The second was Joint Wisdom - all about Dark Side of the Moon by Pink Floyd. This I completed and was thrilled. I'm not at the stage when I can judge the quality of a Listener Puzzle. I'm so pleased to complete one that my judgement gets clouded.though. If anybody remembers them I would be interested in your recollections

[ichkeria]

Be honest folks: 50 per cent of the people who post here, so soon after the puzzle's publication especially, are looking for hints and the other 50 per cent are just dying to give them. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but that's the way it is. Those of us who want to do neither stay well clear of it until our entries our safely in the post.
So worrying about the odd hint here and there seems pointless.

[teuchter2]

Didn't contribute to thread last time, although I did complete. I found the left-hand side difficult, but have completed apart from deciding about 20a and have the instruction. I had thought about speravi's suggestion without visiting the thread. It is something that one needs to do quite frequently and I am about to explore that possibility.

[Zabadak]

S-matrix - components? 9? As I keep on saying, this one really does not check itself.
100% with ichkeria on the reasons for coming here - add the camaraderie and the sense of a usually pleasant experience shared.

[JackDeCrow]

Yep, same number of components here. Have finally understood 20a thanks to checking an entry in today's Times cryptic! Just 16a wordplay left to understand.

[Clamzy]

Jack - If you look at page 941 in the BRB you may find an obscure weight half a dozen lines down from the top. (2008 edition).

[Zabadak]

16ac is straightforward enough, just not the usual treatment of "new".
I have a solution which (IMHO) meets the instruction absolutely, but the language of components, let alone nine of them, is alien to that solution, and I think may be overcomplicating things. Like I say, once you've arrived at an answer which ticks all the boxes (and which, incidentally, produces similar results to the Stein/Bollywood entrants), there is no cause to look further. There might well be other solutions, but there's no way of checking and it then becomes like one of those late night "quiz" shows which invites you to come up with a boys name or somesuch. John is a boys name - it's good, but it's not right. We were thinking of Xavier.
If anyone wants to continue this line of thought off the board so as not to make life too easy for anyone who's struggling, then [email protected] is happy to respond.

[teuchter2]

I have now worked out what to do and just require a bit of checking to make sure I haven't missed any of the components needed. It seems fairly clear cut to me.

[Zabadak]

To those with "components", I see what you've done, and humbly accept that it makes for a more interesting outcome, and probably the "right" one. But I stand by my most recent comments, and to judge by some of the entries (I can't get the new Answer to give me Gertrude Stein, for example, and can get "my" old answer to) some people here have found an answer that satisfies and don't go further - because there's no compelling reason to do so. I think the "instruction" is not without significant ambiguity.