How about an ABer of the week award?

[oddboddy]

Maybe we can have a new competition going on here whereby the person who asks most questions on one quiz gets a little rosette by their name ..Wonder how many would see that as a win lol

[oddboddy]

I think you are missing the point whether thats intentional or not I wouldnt presume to guess but today a setter said they were giving up setting quizzes because of the fact nearly every answer was published on here and he wasnt feeling happy about it, he is perfectly entitled to feel like that and many setters including myself are of the same opinion.
Yes theres others who have an opposing opinion which they are entitled to. Alot of quizzers said they felt this way too
but we all agreed on one thing it was something we had to live with because no-one had a solution. I then came up with what was a totally lighthearted suggestion to inject some humour into it and it did. You obviously didnt find it funny but then peoples humour is different in just the same way as their opinions are on other things and everyone has a right to that opinion. Its good to trade opinions and hear varying views and it is sad when someone makes a belligerent stand against the freedom of doing this. As you rightly said no-one has a right to dictate to you about what you can or cant do on here but then nor do you have the right to want to stop others of a different opinion having a bit of fun between them. As far as I am aware no-one has to declare their source when entering a quiz though actually thats a jolly good idea of yours maybe we should put that into practice. No-one wants to prevent you or anyone else answering questions we would just like it if people exercised a bit of common sense and good manners and refrained from asking the whole quiz because that spoils it for everyone and i'm sure you didn't intend your comment to be read as if that was your intention.

[TCL-MUMPING]

When did I object to the fun? It was catron I was replying to. I have lost count of the times an apparently simple question has received different answers along wi the sources. If I see a question, how am I meant to know that the closing date is in 2013 or even that it comes from a "special" quiz?

If I want to share ma knowledge or use ma ability to Google an answer, I will do. The challenge is for compilers to use THEIR knowledge and THEIR abilities to write questions in such a way that it is hard to Google the answer

[smouse]

well thats utter nonsense
good night all - been an interesting thread

Lets hope it resolves some of the issues raised but I doubt it or if so not for long

[Diane1954]

good night everybody good night

[oddboddy]

Well now I think thats a very good question how are you kind hearted souls that only want to use your knowledge to the benefit of others supposed to know when a quiz ends or if its a special quiz. Tell you what to be absolutely fair in future I will add the words Special quiz on mine then it will show up on the title and maybe we could campaign AB to insist that the closing date of a quiz be displayed at the very top of each thread. That way no-one could have any doubt. Yes I agree it is up to the setter to a certain degree to find quiz questions that cannot be found easily on google but I dont recall one single person on here objecting to google being used or did I miss that thread? However you see if we make them too difficult so that only the likes of you extremely intelligent people can do them it stops ordinary mortals entering and enjoying them. Far be it from me to suggest you were objecting to fun if I remember correctly i'm certain I said that wasn't your intent.
Perish the thought that someone who enjoys answering so many questions on behalf of others would spoil anyones fun. I haven't the slightest objections to you googling away to your hearts content but im afraid the rosette is for asking the questions not for answering them

[TCL-MUMPING]

"You obviously didnt find it funny" was what you wrote or am I missing the point? I didn't say anyone HAD objected to Google being used but it is the fact that folk are objecting to the enterprise of others who use this site for it's purpose, asking questions and seeking answers which others may be able to Google..

[ken48]

Surely the point is that the compiler of a cryptic clue does not intend Google to provide an answer. The quizzer needs to get inside the head of the compiler and work things out, and that�s where the fun and the challenge lies. A general knowledge question is different - for those, Google is an obvious and efficient resource, even though it may still require the quizzer to wade through a load of information to get to an answer.
What has depressed me and pushed me to the edge of giving up compiling quizzes has been the (small, but persistent) number of ABers who have no concerns about asking for large numbers of questions (often early on in the life of a quiz). Having set quizzes for the last 13 years, I have a good number of �regulars� who pride themselves on solving whatever is thrown at them and get a real kick out of getting the answer. A good clue will take time to solve (one reason why quizzes have a long lead in time) and while it�s great to involve family and friends (without publishing the answers for all to see) it is a different matter to use AB almost as a first resort.
The thought that a �mentally idle� AB overuser might win over a more deserving quizzer really sticks in my throat, discourages genuine quizzers, and will eventually lead to fewer quizzes being sold and the charities missing out

[TCL-MUMPING]

Would charities not benefit from those who had never bought a quiz sheet before but will now, in the knowledge that they can ask for answers?

[ken48]

Those who have bought them in the past will stop buying them when the penny drops that they have become a lottery.

Those who have compiled them in the past will stop doing so - please do not underestimate how much work goes into compiling a good quiz - I'm not going to carry on doing that for the idle!!

[TCL-MUMPING]

I have compiled quizzes for work and elsewhere to raise money so I am well aware of the effort that goes into it. If you are doing it to raise money why should it bother you how the answers are obtained?

[TCL-MUMPING]

Folk seem to forget that many charities have selt more quizzes by publicizing them on this very site...

[oddboddy]

Can I say this its something my son pointed out. I dont know if you have children or not but he rightly pointed out if children at school copied the answers to things from others they would be cheating and he couldnt see how someone who makes no effort to do a quiz and just copies every answer off AB isnt cheating too. You by your own admission like looking for answers and finding the answer to beat the setter. Thats whats quizzing is about thats great and thats the sort of person a setter finds challenging but others aren't like that they get a quiz and often the very same day just ask for the answers because they know people will answer them. Others then see the answers its not like a one to one basis everyone sees them so people then dont bother sending for it because its lost its challenge. Also they know loads are going to copy those answers so it will be a random winner who might be one of those who hasnt even answered one question themselves. Do you really want to help people like that it seems to me you should be doing them for you and not letting everyone else use your answers that you've had to look for.

[TCL-MUMPING]

Can you say, honestly, that you have never helped yir son when he had problems doing his homework?

[oddboddy]

I teach my son at home so i'd be a lousy teacher if I didnt help him lol Seriously though that is one of the points we are trying to get across one on one help is fine its ok to ask friends and family etc that way they are helping that one person but on here its open everyone sees it especially as you yourself admitted they dont always give the quiz detail. Its hard to avoid seeing them. Certain people just get quiz sheets and sit and crib every answer off here without making any attempt to answer any. You have set quizzes and you enjoy doing them and you obviously like helping others who are stuck, thats fine but you are helping people like this win and they often win over someone who has struggled to get every answer themself because these others have forced it into a draw. If you can answer them why not do them for yourself and just help those who genuinely deserve it. That ways a lot fairer all round. Surely you can at least understand that view even if you dont agree with it as like I said everyones entitled to their own opinion

[TCL-MUMPING]

If I had struggled to get an answer to a question and someone else on here asked for and received the answer to that same question, would it be wrong of me to add that answer to those I had got through ma own efforts?

What if using that single answer meant that I tied wi someone else who had asked for no help but I went on to win? Have I cheated?

[shaneystar2]

Sorry but you cannot police the internet much as some would like to . Nothing you can do about it other than address your concerns to the Editor .Perhaps he may then shut down the whole caboosh known as Q&P and a good job too if this is the state it has come to.
Quite frankly one is scared to answer anything these days .
What used to be a nice friendly section has developed into a joke . No wonder us old regulars give it a miss .
Desperation to get answers to quizzes !
People who feel the need to police a website .
Tittle tattles and people who feel the need to demean others by drawing attention to their misdemeanours .
Grow up for goodness sake .You are worse than a lot of little children.
Anyone would think these quizzes are a matter of national importance the way you carry on .
The winnings for these ruddy quizzes are negligible ..Are you all so desperate to win a tenner ?

[Tallulah!]

Good Morning!
All I wanted to know was could I buy Ken's Quiz, not who he is!
I would love Q&P to be closed down because I don't need to ask questions, Books and Google are good enough for me. I'm not a lazy girl.
I found I agreed with Catron Again!!!
Shaneystar, The winnings with Quizmail USED to be huge BEFORE AB started up. With only a couple of winners in each league I could rake in �300, then it dropped to get full marks but receive �1 after paying �14. Clues were only sometimes given on quizzing.co.uk but the editor edited the answers.
Count up the number of entrants to GFQ last Jan and compare with this and there is a significant fall.

[flopsymopsy]

Tallulah, for those of us that need help with quizzes, perhaps you could post a list of useful reference books and websites. I do prefer books but they dont always provide an answer,. I and I bet many others take exception to being labled idle cheats when we only ask for help on one or two questions each quiz - when we are totally stuck and googled blue in the face, AB is the next step; unfortunately people asking for blocks of answers seems to be on the increase and I agree they should not do that. You are obviously an expert quizzer and dont need help so please share your knowledge.
Love the idea of the rosette; perhaps the "winner" of it should not be allowed to ask questions for the next four weeks!

[oddboddy]

Ok I started this so I can I point out it was intended as a light hearted thread not intended to offend or upset and the majority did realise that. Unfortunately some do seem to have taken it badly and that was never the intent. Everyone is entitled to do quizzes their way and everyone has a right to their opinion including the setters. No we are not trying to lay the law down or police the site as has been suggested we were just airing a view. Its something people wont ever agree on and there is no solution, some setters have started reducing their prizes or not offering one at all, some have given up altogether thats sad as then everyone loses out all round. I have never heard one person say they want to stop people helping others they just want people to be fair about it thats all. I admit AB does help sell quizzes of course it does but to say we only care about the amount we sell is unfair if it were so, setters like Ken48 wouldn't be giving up and there a number of setters that ask that their quizzes not be advertised on here at all.
I accept people will always ask and answers be given. I accept there are people who will use this site as a way of getting all the answers without doing any themselves accepting is one thing that doesnt mean I have to like it. Its something we have to just accept that we are of differing opinions on. People are breaking no rules asking every question because AB doesnt have a ruling on this so I guess we have to put up with it, but I think it means more setters will give up and prizes will be reduced and that in my opinion is very sad. Unfortunately I feel alot will take the same route Ken48 is proposing and just stop setting quizzes in fact I am seriously considering taking that option myself in the not to distant future.

[ken48]

Oddboddy � I appreciated your lighthearted suggestion which started off this thread. It was, I�m sure, in response to my earlier post yesterday. I�m sorry that it has created extra work for you in responding to so many comments, but the issues have been well and truly aired (again).
Someone yesterday reminded us all that it�s only a game. That�s right � games should be fun and we need to keep a sense of humour and not fall out with anyone. I�ve always taught my children that it�s the taking part that matters, not the winning, but games should also be fair, and winners deserving.
I guess that the best outcome would be a facility whereby quizzers could request help (I�ve no objection to people asking for help within reason, particularly when they�ve put real effort into most of a quiz). But that help should go to them privately (perhaps via email or a password controlled retrieval system). That way we avoid large numbers of answers going into the public domain and quizzes could return to being challenging for all. But this is clearly contrary to the concept of a BANK of answers.

Thanks again, and best wishes. (I�m off now to contemplate Greek beaches!!)