Patsyann, Pulse, and Smouse - it just got up my nose that a new member on possibly their first query got castigated for doing so . Appreciate that you all have issues with others that don't try too hard . I myself do loads of crosswords and puzzles and (due to research, Googling,etc ) rarely have to ask anything on this site. I often give the benefit of the doubt as some people may not be familiar with search sites. Bye for now and sorry if I annoyed some of you.