Compression Of Water

[Khandro]

I'm reading Leonardo's notebooks, and in "The Nature of Water" he writes,
"........., seeing that water cannot be compressed within itself like air."
No pun intended, but does this assertion from the fourteen hundreds still hold water today, - can water be compressed?

[jim360]

Yes, but not by much. da Vinci didn't really have the equipment to show this. Over a scale of ocean depths water still is only compressed by about 2%, so it's "virtually" incompressible.

[Teddio]

Matter is made from atoms and they are largely empty space. The volume occupied by the nucleus is tiny in comparison to that of the atom.

Very large forces, such as those on the surface of a neutron star or near a Black Hole, could crush a large volume of water to a very small volume, say swimming pool volume to matchbox volume.

This would leave essentially a super-dense volume of neutrons. If the external crushing force was even greater, the "neutron degeneracy pressure" would be unable to resist, and it would shrink out of existence, occupying zero volume.

[jake-the-peg]

I often hear this assertion that 'matter is largely empty space'

And from a pop-science kind of angle I know what they're trying to say but I don't really think it has a lot of meaning when looked at from a Quantum mechanics point of view.

If we're still thinking of tiny billiard balls orbiting a central nucleus yes, but that's not really how it is is it?

We have probability densities of finding electrons in a particular place, we have virtual particles flashing in and out of existance, carrier bosons transmitting the various forces.

There's a lot going on in that 'empty space'

[Khandro]

Teddio: Isn't the magnitude of force you suggest, really a hypothetical notion and doesn't exist in the universe as we know it. I think Leonardo and jim are referring to earth-bound force, and the weight of the above water at the deepest ocean bed must be as strong as you could find in nature, and it produces, jim says, only 2% compression.
Can man by the use of hydraulic machinery produce more pressure than that?

[jim360]

Neutron Stars exist, have been observed and do have the strength of forces Teddio is referring to. However by that point you can't really claim to have water any more -- it's just dense neutrons.

As long as water is water it can barely be compressed.

[jomifl]

Khandro, if you drill a 1mm diameter hole in a metal block, put a drop of water in it and then inserted a 1mm diameter rod into it then placed a 22pound weight on top of the rod, the water under the rod woud have the same pressure as at the bottom of the Marianas Trench. So simply put more weight on it et voila! (leaks notwithstanding)

[Khandro]

^ / et voila!/ what happens?

[jomifl]

Why Khandro you either die heroically in the attempt or you succeed in answering you own question :-) which I believed pertained to acheiving a higher water pressure than occurs naturally.

[jake-the-peg]

Well I think a 2% variance in a prediction made 500 years ago is pretty good!

[Khandro]

Sorry jomifl, but staying within the confines of reality, it would seem that it isn't possible to get much higher than 2%. When you say "leaks notwithstanding" are you not presenting a theoretical submission?

[society]

Yes, I believe water (liquid) could be compressed.

I not to long emptied a bottle of juice in a jug, but then I thought to myself - I may not get the time to finish drinking all this juice so I poured it back into the bottle. The bottle filled just as I had bought it and about 1/3 cup was left over. Please explain this; this is the most baffling experience I've encountered.

This is why I think water could be compressed.

[Khandro]

was the juice carbonated?

[society]

No, it was carrot juice. I couldn't believe what I'd just witnessed.

[society]

Freshly pressed carrot juice, no carrot fibre or bits, just pure liquid.

[society]

You know Methyl, something like that crossed my mind. That was the only feasible explanation I could thing of.

[EDDIE51]

Water can not be compressed , that is why hydraulics work. It is a basic law of Physics.
society, could there have been there some water in the jug when you started that you did not notice ? It's either that or it foamed up when you poured it back.

[jim360]

The degree of compression is such that it's not observed in hydraulic machinery, but water can be compressed.

[society]

The jug was dry. I am so puzzled by this, I would try it again when I open another bottle of juice. The amount left over is most confusing.

[wildwood]

By warming water to it's liquid state, is that not already compressing it by 9%?