The Colour Red

[Khandro]

Does the colour red (or any other of the spectrum) exist outside of the mind?

[Old_Jim]

Red is the image we have in our brains when a particular wavelength (or group of wavelengths - we're easily fooled) of light is focussed on the retina of our eyes. Different things react in particular ways to light of certain frequencies, so colours definitely exist. However, what you experience as red, I might experience as blue or the C above middle C. Because we both describe it as red, there's no way of knowing how other people experience it, although some insight may be gained from those who can't tell red from green.

[chrisgel]

As someone who suffers from colour blindness I can say that my "red and green" are quite substantially different from other peoples. Makes playing snooker quite interesting. :)

[AB Editor]

Shall we use the power of radiowaves to learn about colours?

http://www.radiolab.org/story/211119-colors/

[LazyGun]

That's a good link, Ed. Interesting programme.

[mibn2cweus]

Khandro
Question Author
mibn2cweus; ^ A good and most elegant definition, but do you think the experience of person A, is necessarily identical to that of person B ?
09:09 Wed 19th Feb 2014

For the experience to be identical would require that persons A and B were one and the same entity. There appears to be at least enough similarity in most peoples shared experience however to agree when to stop and when to go at a stop light. The advantages made possible to us by our ability and desire to relate conceptually to a common reality are of inestimable value in establishing what is in our mutual best interest and what makes our mutual existence and well being of value to each other.

[heathfield]

Ho hum. This question is along the same lines as "If a tree falls in the forest...", i.e. pretty pointless.

[Zacs-Master]

Does the fact that red is chosen as an internationally recognised colour of warning at least indicate that that shade, even if not perceived the same by all people, does at least stand out from other shades (colours)?

There is an African tribe who don't see colours the same as we do which is connected, strangely, to language:
http://www.boreme.com/posting.php?id=30670#.UwTfnvl_t8E

[McMouse]

Colours only exist if there's someone to hear them.

[naomi24]

//There appears to be at least enough similarity in most peoples shared experience however to agree when to stop and when to go at a stop light.//

I'm thinking along similar lines.

[dunnitall]

How on earth can you answer it, it is purely a matter of opinion, i can see it, you may not, who is right, who knows? Prove it and you're done...if not you are asking for an answer that is impossible to give, well done at least it's worthy of debate despite no definitive answer.

[joggerjayne]

// There appears to be at least enough similarity in most peoples shared experience however to agree when to stop and when to go at a stop light //

But is the red light at traffic lights a "shared experience"?

We all know that it's the light at the top. So we stop.

But do we all see the same thing?

We all know that the light at the top on a traffic light is the same colour as grass, and the one in the middle is the same colour as Santa's suit, and the one at the bottom is the same colour as a banana, but do we necessarily experience them in the same way?

Is it a "shared experience"?

[dunnitall]

Who can say jj....I can't see from your side of things neither can you from mine....it's the impossible question asking for the impossible answer, we could go round and round In circles and disappear up our own.....exhaust pipes?

[joggerjayne]

Well, precisely, dunnitall

But that doesn't stop people philosophising about it.

[dunnitall]

Very true jj and long may it continue ;-)

[FredPuli43]

Whose mind? It doesn't exist inside the mind of a dog; dogs cannot distinguish red ! And it does not exist in the minds of some colour blind people. But those people know it exists, though they can't think what is like.

No doubt individuals who can see red will be seeing a slightly different shade from others, humans varying a lot as individuals.

[dunnitall]

Prove to me what animals see, conclusively and without doubt? How can one know exactly that dogs do not see the colour red, prove it and I will be satisfied.

[Khandro]

//There appears to be at least enough similarity in most peoples shared experience however to agree when to stop and when to go at a stop light.//
But chrisgel cannot tell the difference between red and green so presumably he has to go by the position of the light, top or bottom, and for those with full colour differentiation, as long as there is consistency within each person's vision there would be no conflict if what A sees as red, B sees (moving round the spectrum) as orange or violet - would it?
I'm wondering, if the final analysis has to come through the filter of the individual mind, whether we are all experiencing what we think everyone else is.

[dunnitall]

W.O.E? Just forget it, why ask when the subject is absolutely subjective? Have you time to kill or something? Okay I'm perpetuating this thread by answering but What The Funicular are you saying here....definitive answer or not...give us one as you posed the question..pretty please...!

[LazyGun]

Its well proven and documented that dogs do not see the same range of colours as humans, especially into the red end of the spectrum.

This is for 2 reasons; 1st that they only have 2 different types of cone cells - the cells that pick up light at different wavelengths - whereas humans have 3, and the type missing is the one that detects visible light towards the red end of the spectrum ; And secoondly they have quantitatively less cone cells than humans.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/200810/can-dogs-see-colors

[jomifl]

I think it wouldn't be surprising if a 2 separate nervous systems with almost identical components operating in very similar ways didn't experience things in the same way and interpret things in the same way.